Electrical wiring for beginners

[Tranona]

Well the Marine Surveyor has had a good look at what I have done and he is happy and that is what matters!

I want to fix the lights pulsing but thinking about it (after reading Paul's comment) it is only a 5 minute job.

Indeed. You seem to have wired your solar incorrectly - a fundamental error. You could guess what the next question would be, but don't listen to the armchair experts' drivel.

 

[coopec]

Indeed. You seem to have wired your solar incorrectly - a fundamental error. You could guess what the next question would be, but don't listen to the armchair experts' drivel.

I'm not sure what the point of your post is? .

I've obviously made an error in wiring up the solar panels. And yes, it is a fundamental error......? But as I've pointed out it will be a 5 minute job to fix it!

“The man who never makes a mistake must get pretty tired of doing nothing" (Vernon Martin)

 

[Alex_Blackwood]

I'm not sure what the point of your post is? .

I've obviously made an error in wiring up the solar panels. And yes, it is a fundamental error......? But as I've pointed out it will be a 5 minute job to fix it!

“The man who never makes a mistake must get pretty tired of doing nothing" (Vernon Martin)

The above is true. Also "Everyday is a school day"!
Please. Do let us know how long it takes!!! We await with unabated breath!

 

[coopec]

The above is true. Also "Everyday is a school day"!
Please. Do let us know how long it takes!!! We await with unabated breath!

I googled "Everyday is a school day" and found it means that you learn something new every day. How true! I have learned an enormous amount while building the yacht!

(I don't follow the rest of your comment)

 

[Alex_Blackwood]

Is it at all possible for you to post in a thread without being rude ?

Thought not.

Don't knock the entertainment. It's free!

 

[Tranona]

I'm not sure what the point of your post is? .

I've obviously made an error in wiring up the solar panels. And yes, it is a fundamental error......? But as I've pointed out it will be a 5 minute job to fix it!

“The man who never makes a mistake must get pretty tired of doing nothing" (Vernon Martin)

Quietly suggesting that if you made such a basic error in a simple job like that what else is lurking there that you might also discover is not right?

Anyway you described your problem and after a bit of prompting for more information the "armchair experts" solved it quickly and suggested other things you might want to look at.

All for free with a bit of humour thrown in!

 

[Alex_Blackwood]

I googled "Everyday is a school day" and found it means that you learn something new every day. How true! I have learned an enormous amount while building the yacht!

(I don't follow the rest of your comment)

The clue is the 5 minute job!

 

[coopec]

The clue is the 5 minute job!

Well I know what you mean now. But it is a very simple fix

I'll be working on the yacht tomorrow and (from memory) I expect to fix it by shifting leads from one busbar to another.

 

[coopec]

Quietly suggesting that if you made such a basic error in a simple job like that what else is lurking there that you might also discover is not right?

Anyway you described your problem and after a bit of prompting for more information the "armchair experts" solved it quickly and suggested other things you might want to look at.

All for free with a bit of humour thrown in!

Maybe you build a yacht from scratch and let me pick your mistakes?
But I suppose an absolute expert like you wouldn't make a mistake?

 

[rogerthebodger]

The clue is the 5 minute job!

Having built my own boat including all the wiring I have found there is not thing as a 5 minute job as murphy is always hanging around to hide the tools , wire crimps or heat shrink

 

[thinwater]

Through many years of sailing and refinery practice, the vast, vast majority of actual electrical problems and fires trace to poor connections an chafe.

• Solder poorly done
  • no suport
  • larger wires that should have been crimped, leading to fatigue or corrosion.
  • corrosion
  • ends soldered, inserted into clamp, and then the clamp loosened as the solder creeped. NEVER tin wire ends for clamps.
• Poor crimping done with cheap crimper.
• Connections not in a secure location.
• Chafe.
  • Also insulation pinched when the cover was closed (common).
  • Vibration against inside of enclosure (machinery).
• Too many wires on one screw.
• Loose connections in general.

The right diagram is also important. But good connections and protection make it last.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Through many years of sailing and refinery practice, the vast, vast majority of actual electrical problems and fires trace to poor connections an chafe.

• Solder poorly done
  • no suport
  • larger wires that should have been crimped, leading to fatigue or corrosion.
  • corrosion
  • ends soldered, inserted into clamp, and then the clamp loosened as the solder creeped. NEVER tin wire ends for clamps.
• Poor crimping done with cheap crimper.
• Connections not in a secure location.
• Chafe.
  • Also insulation pinched when the cover was closed (common).
  • Vibration against inside of enclosure (machinery).
• Too many wires on one screw.
• Loose connections in general.

The right diagram is also important. But good connections and protection make it last.

What do you think of the video in post #1 and the 2nd part (i'd skim them, so as not to get bored) ?

 

[Tranona]

Maybe you build a yacht from scratch and let me pick your mistakes?
But I suppose an absolute expert like you wouldn't make a mistake?

Yes I have - twice with smaller boats, and major refits twice with much bigger boats, one ongoing, both including complete re-wire. Bit more challenging with an existing boat as not a completely clean sheet of paper but constrained by what is already there. Yes, I have things that did not quite work out and done things in a sub optimal manner. Benefitted from advice from folks on here.

It was your posts 2 and 7 describing what was happening to your boat (plus your admission to being a beginner!) that displayed a fundamental lack of understanding of how to wire solar charging into a boat's electrical system. Still not quite a 5 minute job to fix properly even though it is just changing 2 wires from one place to another, although can't exactly say without knowing how you have laid out the connections involved in the switch.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Yes I have - twice with smaller boats, and major refits twice with much bigger boats, one ongoing, both including complete re-wire. Bit more challenging with an existing boat as not a completely clean sheet of paper but constrained by what is already there. Yes, I have things that did not quite work out and done things in a sub optimal manner. Benefitted from advice from folks on here.

It was your posts 2 and 7 describing what was happening to your boat (plus your admission to being a beginner!) that displayed a fundamental lack of understanding of how to wire solar charging into a boat's electrical system. Still not quite a 5 minute job to fix properly even though it is just changing 2 wires from one place to another, although can't exactly say without knowing how you have laid out the connections involved in the switch.

Not entirely sure that's the case, as further information was posted.

Lights work from solar power, when the main isolator is off.
Batteries get charged by solar, when the main isolator is off.
No connections to the solar controller load terminals.

Logic would suggest, in the absence of some really weird wiring, that the light circuit and the solar controller must be connected to the same point.

If that point were after the isolator switch, the batteries cannot get charged.
If the connection is to the battery side of the isolator switch the light would behave normally, but would be "always on".

So, it's either really weird wiring or some of the information posted is incorrect.

 

[Tranona]

That is the point. Without knowing more it is just a guessing game. It was coopec that suggested he was just going to change the wires from one bus bar to another post#48.

No idea if this will fix it but I guess we are unlikely to get a wiring diagram or a photo of the installation. After all it has been "approved" by his marine surveyor.

 

[Alex_Blackwood]

Not entirely sure that's the case, as further information was posted.

Lights work from solar power, when the main isolator is off.
Batteries get charged by solar, when the main isolator is off.
No connections to the solar controller load terminals.

Logic would suggest, in the absence of some really weird wiring, that the light circuit and the solar controller must be connected to the same point.

If that point were after the isolator switch, the batteries cannot get charged.
If the connection is to the battery side of the isolator switch the light would behave normally, but would be "always on".

So, it's either really weird wiring or some of the information posted is incorrect.

Just to complicate it. He said that the lights were "pulsing" would the solar controller pulse charge and even if it did would the battery not compensate and act as an UPS as in his posted illustration? Just a thought. Mind you this all may be some sort of Aussie humour and he is having us on and having a good laugh at the armchair "POMS"

 

[coopec]

Not entirely sure that's the case, as further information was posted.

Lights work from solar power, when the main isolator is off.
Batteries get charged by solar, when the main isolator is off.
No connections to the solar controller load terminals.

Logic would suggest, in the absence of some really weird wiring, that the light circuit and the solar controller must be connected to the same point.

If that point were after the isolator switch, the batteries cannot get charged.
If the connection is to the battery side of the isolator switch the light would behave normally, but would be "always on".

So, it's either really weird wiring or some of the information posted is incorrect.

Paul
If the solar panels aren't connected to the battery but the lights are then wouldn't the MPPT controller attempt to charge the battery then finding the battery wouldn't take a charge it would switch off and try again a second or two later.
Would that explain the pulsing? I don't know how MPPT Controllers work but I imagine they would continually monitor the battery and start charging it if the voltage was below a certain level (12.6V?).
I didn't have time today to check it out but I am certain I can get it working just by doing what you said - connect the solar cells before the master switch. It's a fair bet I have installed it after the master switch

 

[coopec]

Deleted

 

[Tranona]

Paul
If the solar panels aren't connected to the battery but the lights are then wouldn't the MPPT controller attempt to charge the battery then finding the battery wouldn't take a charge it would switch off and try again a second or two later.
Would that explain the pulsing? I don't know how MPPT Controllers work but I imagine they would continually monitor the battery and start charging it if the voltage was below a certain level (12.6V?).
I didn't have time today to check it out but I am certain I can get it working just by doing what you said - connect the solar cells before the master switch. It's a fair bet I have installed it after the master switch

Yes. Back to the principles. The solar input should be connected to the "storage" - that is the battery. As you say the charge is dependent on the SOC of the battery. Presumably for your domestic circuits like your lights are controlled through a distribution panel connected to the battery with an isolator switch. When the isolator switch is on, the panel is live and the individual circuits are fused and switched from there. When you leave the boat that isolator is turned to off.

No direct connection between the lights and the solar.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Paul
If the solar panels aren't connected to the battery but the lights are then wouldn't the MPPT controller attempt to charge the battery then finding the battery wouldn't take a charge it would switch off and try again a second or two later.
Would that explain the pulsing? I don't know how MPPT Controllers work but I imagine they would continually monitor the battery and start charging it if the voltage was below a certain level (12.6V?).
I didn't have time today to check it out but I am certain I can get it working just by doing what you said - connect the solar cells before the master switch. It's a fair bet I have installed it after the master switch

But you previously said "I can say the batteries are getting charged when the isolator is OFF"

If the solar controller is wired after the isolator switch, this shouldn't be possible.

Do you have the solar just connected to the domestic side, or is there solar connected to the engine battery ?