Electric windlass/chain question

[L_555]

Hello all, I got my first boat a couple of weeks ago now- 32 ft Targa 96 Finnish built I had the wonderful Ian from www.justsailing .co.uk sailings chool in Genoa on board this week, teaching me the fundamentals to keep me safe and confident here in the Med. An issue that has come up, after struggling to lift the anchor manually is that I need a windlass. I am looking at options and given that I will mostly be single-handed, an electric windlass with remote seeming like the best option?. Currently I have about 5 metres of chain and around 30m of rope with a 15 kg Trefoil anchor. There is a Lewmar 1500w 10mm second hand from 2018 available locally at a good price. I would imagine I would need to completely replace the chain rope set-up with 10mm chain unless there is another alternative? In which case, how much chain would you recommmend. Thank you.

 

[vyv_cox]

10 mm chain is far too heavy for your boat. You might be able to replace the gypsy with one for 8 mm chain but you would need to check that it is available and the cost.

 

[prv]

An electric windlass is definitely a good idea, but your mention of a remote implies you're envisaging raising the anchor from the cockpit.

I suggest being very cautious about that - windlasses are very powerful and they do not have any system to stop them if something gets snarled up, jammed, or twisted. Some yachts have very well designed foredeck, bow roller, and anchor locker arrangements where the gear always comes in smoothly without any assistance, but others, especially older boats and Scandinavian ones (because in their home waters, they usually tie up to a rock instead of anchoring from the bow) do not. Until you're sure that your setup is the first kind, it would be sensible to operate the windlass from the foredeck where you can easily deal with any little problems before they become big ones. The boat is not going to drift very far in the time it takes you to return to the cockpit once the anchor's up.

Pete

 

[L_555]

Great- thanks for the advice Pete- in which case I might also therefore look at a manual- less to go wrong as my sailing boat neighbours have said!

 

[prv]

Having had both, I would go with the electric. I have a similar sized boat to yours, and wouldn't want a manual instead. They don't generally go wrong.

You might also find it tricky to buy one - I think most manufacturers have stopped making manual windlasses.

Pete

 

[Graham376]

Electric is the way to go but, as said above, 10mm chain too heavy and it may not fit the gypsy anyway as there are two 10mm chain specs (ISO & DIN) with approx 2mm difference in link size. Wireless remotes are good but don't buy the one by windlass maker, they're rip-off prices, look on ebay. Advantage of wireless rather than remote cockpit switch is they can also be used at the stem when hauling last few metres.

 

[prv]

Even if you do fit a remote (I'm not saying not to, just don't base any plans on the assumption that you'll be able to perform the whole operation from the wheel) I'd suggest adding deck buttons as well. They'll provide a more reliable backup if the remote ever stops working (even just temporarily with a flat battery), and mean you don't need to go and fetch it if you should be on the foredeck and decide that the chain needs adjusting.

A switch in the power supply to both the buttons and the remote receiver is a decent idea, as a "safety catch" to make sure the windlass doesn't operate when you don't want it to. More than once on charter boats I've accidentally knelt or laid on deck switches while handling a stuck furler or a hanked-on jib, and I can tell you that feeling a 1000-watt mincing machine start up through the chest of your oilies is more than a little alarming. Something falling against a remote in a drawer, or even a guest poking it to see what happens, could have a similar effect. Best to have the system isolated when you're not either anchored or about to be.

Pete

 

[Jamie Dundee]

Great- thanks for the advice Pete- in which case I might also therefore look at a manual- less to go wrong as my sailing boat neighbours have said!

If you buy a manual windlass you will never use it. Don’t ask how I know this....

Edited to say; you will use it once.....then never again.

 

[rogerthebodger]

If you fit an electric one you can use it by hand for the last meter or 3 if you are unsure.

Mine gypsy has a cone drive that can be adjusted to slip when the anchor reaches the bow roller or the chain gets jammed.

 

[vyv_cox]

If you buy a manual windlass you will never use it. Don’t ask how I know this....

Edited to say; you will use it once.....then never again.

I fully agree. I have had two manual windlasses, a vertical axis one and a horizontal, Lofrans Royal I think. Neither was successful, the horizontal one so slow that it was far more convenient to haul the chain in by hand and the vertical one a real PITA to use. If buying anything, buy a vertical electric one, assuming it will fit in the boat. There are some pointers to this installation on my website here Windlass installation

 

[GHA]

Great- thanks for the advice Pete- in which case I might also therefore look at a manual- less to go wrong as my sailing boat neighbours have said!

Electric!
As a full time liveaboard usually on the hook fitting a lofrans and ditching the manual windlass was a complete game changer. Wireless remote off ebay in parallel with the solenoid has been flawless for many years.

 

[L_555]

Thanks all- I have found an Italwinch 700w for 8mm chain on a European website at a very good price so electric seems the way forward.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

You might want to think about a dedicated battery located near to the windlass. Otherwise it's long cable runs.

Also, have a think about how much chain / warp you want, 35m isn't a lot for some areas of the Med. but may be fine where you are.

 

[Neeves]

I'd take the decisions you will need to make, slowly.

You appear to have decided on an electric windlass - and as suggested you need to consider how you are going to power it. Are you going to wire in a dedicated battery near the windlass, is your house bank big enough if you want to use the battery bank you have? If you are going to locate a dedicated battery near the windlass - where are you going to house it, how are you going to charge it?

Where are you going to locate the windlass, is there enough room underneath to store the chain. 10mm chain is not only heavy - it takes up room, 8mm is more than adequate but 35m seems a bit parsimonious. If your chain locker is small - you might want to solicit views on higher tensile 6mm chain.

You mention an Italwinch (about which I know absolutely nothing) but 700w seems on the small side.

So....

If you have fairly confident you will go electric (and a remote is not really part of a decision making process - I'd have foot switches - I'm sure remotes fail at some stage (even if you run out of batteries to power it) - then I'd start another thread and solicit views on windlass, size and type. I'd also try to solicit views on batteries, size, location, management etc.

There is a wealth of expertise here - its free, make use of it.

First up - use the search engine and see what it throws up.

None of what you want to do is difficult - someone here has done it.

But don't buy an Italwinch because its the cheapest you can find - buy it because it does the task for which you intend to install it.

I'd also suggest you look for another anchor. Modern anchors are easier to work with than the older designs, and I am sure some will come up on eBay, or equivalent - during the time you are working through the issues of windlass and battery. So keep your ear to the ground, or eyes on the for sale ads. Think 15kg Rocna, Supreme, Spade, Kobra (and later a aluminium Fortress FX 16).


I'd endorse the idea of an electric winch - it will make anchoring a pleasure - go for it! Just don't rush.

Jonathan

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Totally agree. It's a 32' boat, 8mm is definitely ample and 6mm might well be adequate. My 12T 45' mobo has 8mm chain.

35m seems inadequate for all except the most benign (and shallow) of anchorages, especially if it's only 5m of chain then warp. You'd want to set a minimum of 5x -6x depth with a warp rode, so you're limited to finding anchorages with only maybe 6m of water. Going to 50m of chain (if feasible) would open up your options significantly.

 

[L_555]

Thanks all- I have found an Italwinch 700w for 8mm chain on a European website at a very good price. With that in mind, how many metres of chain would you tend to go with and would you choose all chain or chain and rope? I will be in the med-I was thinking around 60/65m which I think at 8mm would weight around 70kg so not excessive?

 

[Neeves]

Think in terms of 1.45kg/m for 8mm chain.

6mm is around 0.8kg/m and 10mm 2.3kg/m

Think of whether it will physically fit in the locker (along with the windlass and battery - depending on what you decide).

Those with much more local knowledge will suggest length of rode for the Med.

Jonathan

 

[Ian_Edwards]

Although the ebay remotes are far cheaper than the manufacturer's version, the manufacturer's versions have advantages. I've a Quick wired remote working on a Lewmar Windlass, it has a chain counter, which lets me pay out the correct amount of chain from the cockpit when anchoring, I can set an automatic stop when there's just 1m of chain dangling from the roller, so I can retrieve the anchor single handed from the cockpit, although I don't normally do this unless it's a very crowded anchorage or there a possibility of being blown onto a lee shore. I use the original Lewmar control at the bow under normal circumstances to get the anchor stowed, this also lets me use the deck wash hose to clean the chain and anchor as it is being winched in.
It's a CAN Bus system and has allsorts of additional features, which I have to admit I don't use, but, for example, you can set it to payout a set length of chain, it'll probably also put the kettle on and make the tea

 

[Graham376]

Although the ebay remotes are far cheaper than the manufacturer's version, the manufacturer's versions have advantages. I've a Quick wired remote working on a Lewmar Windlass, it has a chain counter, which lets me pay out the correct amount of chain from the cockpit when anchoring, I can set an automatic stop when there's just 1m of chain dangling from the roller, so I can retrieve the anchor single handed from the cockpit, although I don't normally do this unless it's a very crowded anchorage or there a possibility of being blown onto a lee shore. I use the original Lewmar control at the bow under normal circumstances to get the anchor stowed, this also lets me use the deck wash hose to clean the chain and anchor as it is being winched in.
It's a CAN Bus system and has allsorts of additional features, which I have to admit I don't use, but, for example, you can set it to payout a set length of chain, it'll probably also put the kettle on and make the tea

At what cost for the Quick and the Lewmar controllers? ebay remotes are around £10 and most of us are very happy with them and no problem washing the chain at the same time

 

[vyv_cox]

Thanks all- I have found an Italwinch 700w for 8mm chain on a European website at a very good price. With that in mind, how many metres of chain would you tend to go with and would you choose all chain or chain and rope? I will be in the med-I was thinking around 60/65m which I think at 8mm would weight around 70kg so not excessive?

I carry 65 metres of 8 mm chain on a boat a couple of feet longer than yours. This length has been adequate throughout the Med (but not Turkey, where I understand some very deep anchorages may be encountered). Our previous 50 metres was insufficient a few times in Corsica and Sardinia. In Greece we sometimes use it all when berthing stern-to when it can be difficult to estimate distance from the wall on approach.