electric winches and their woes

[prv]

Just put someone up the mast the other day with my electric winch (which I love ...) and used it in self tailing mode. Why was I wrong?

The usual concern is that if the switch should stick in the "on" position, which has happened, then you'll drag him up to the masthead even if he has his leg (say) tucked under a shroud, then when he's got there the winch will continue to haul until something breaks, at which point (depending what broke) he falls to the deck.

Personally I think this risk is a little overplayed, but that's the argument.

Pete

 

[dgadee]

The usual concern is that if the switch should stick in the "on" position, which has happened, then you'll drag him up to the masthead even if he has his leg (say) tucked under a shroud, then when he's got there the winch will continue to haul until something breaks, at which point (depending what broke) he falls to the deck.

Personally I think this risk is a little overplayed, but that's the argument.

Pete

But you are at the winch and can just pull the rope off the tailer if that happens. The halyard runs through a cleat so it's hardly going to let him fall if you remove it from the self tailer.

 

[charles_reed]

Better still, send her up the mast. Usually, but not always these days, she is lighter.

PersonallyI dont se why electric winches should be any more dangerous than electric windlasses.

Not the winches or windlasses but the operators are the danger. In fairness the majority of accidents have been in using electric windlasses, but not for anchoring.

 

[dom]

But you are at the winch and can just pull the rope off the tailer if that happens. The halyard runs through a cleat so it's hardly going to let him fall if you remove it from the self tailer.

By the time you have pulled the rope off the self-tailer the climber could have lost their leg. If it's not on self tailer, and the button jams, you just let the line go upon hearing a shout. A properly handled safety line should remove any chance of a fall.

 

[dgadee]

By the time you have pulled the rope off the self-tailer the climber could have lost their leg. If it's not on self tailer, and the button jams, you just let the line go upon hearing a shout. A properly handled safety line should remove any chance of a fall.

Seems unlikely it would take that long to get it off the self tailer given I use the winch's slow speed. And, of course, there's an additional safety line.

 

[Graham_Wright]

By the time you have pulled the rope off the self-tailer the climber could have lost their leg. If it's not on self tailer, and the button jams, you just let the line go upon hearing a shout. A properly handled safety line should remove any chance of a fall.

Give up! There are those who will never be convinced and you can do nothing more than say "don't".

At the show, we heard yet another tale of a woman who lost her forearm. I know no details but I would bet she was "being safe". One moment's distraction is all it needs.

 

[dgadee]

Give up! There are those who will never be convinced and you can do nothing more than say "don't".

At the show, we heard yet another tale of a woman who lost her forearm. I know no details but I would bet she was "being safe". One moment's distraction is all it needs.

Surely these are arguments against electric winches and windlasses per se. Or even sailing itself ....

 

[dom]

At the show, we heard yet another tale of a woman who lost her forearm. I know no details but I would bet she was "being safe". One moment's distraction is all it needs.

...or a stuck switch, or whatever, but your"moment" word is key - that's all it takes to seriously hurt someone.

All I can say is that safety aloft is taken seriously on racing yachts and training ships alike. The more you do it, the more you realise just how safe mast climbing can be even at sea ...but only if it's done properly. That's why a helmet is worth having on board, why those old Musto "bubble" buoyancy aids are used as body-protectors on some of the Volvo boats, why proper climbing knots are used, why proper safety harnesses are worn and why so many boats have a topping lift to main-halyard spec (provides a spare as well as a safety line).

 

[dgadee]

...or a stuck switch, or whatever, but your"moment" word is key - that's all it takes to seriously hurt someone.

All I can say is that safety aloft is taken seriously on racing yachts and training ships alike. The more you do it, the more you realise just how safe mast climbing can be even at sea ...but only if it's done properly. That's why a helmet is worth having on board, why those old Musto "bubble" buoyancy aids are used as body-protectors on some of the Volvo boats, why proper climbing knots are used, why proper safety harnesses are worn and why so many boats have a topping lift to main-halyard spec (provides a spare as well as a safety line).

Agree, but what's that got to do with electric winches? My man used a climbing harness, topping lift same size as halyard etc.

 

[dom]

Agree, but what's that got to do with electric winches? My man used a climbing harness, topping lift same size as halyard etc.

Sorry, my central point here is that when using an electric winch to haul someone aloft - the hauling rope should "NEVER" be placed in the self-tailer.

 

[dgadee]

This is all interesting and I can see why you feel that self tailing is a problem. There was an incident which was reported in the yachting press where a woman lost her hand and which Lewmar said they were going to investigate. I haven't been able to find any after the event report. However, the incident seems to have been with the woman using the winch, rather than the person up the mast. Perhaps Lewmar didn't produce any conclusions because it might suggest a safety issue with - as I suggested above - electric winches and windlasses per se. The person being pulled up the mast seems incidental to what has been reported so far - it could have been a sail being raised.

The reported incident is at: http://www.yachtingmonthly.com/news/523963/lewmar-investigates-hand-severing-incident with the statement that "One onlooker said the scene resembled 'an abattoir with body parts all over the cockpit'."

 

[prv]

The person being pulled up the mast seems incidental on what has been reported so far - it could have been a sail being raised.

That's always been my take on that accident too, and yet everyone always trots it out as a cautionary tale specifically about lifting people.

Pete

 

[dom]

The person being pulled up the mast seems incidental to what has been reported so far - it could have been a sail being raised.

If the injured girl was doing the winching, then you are right; what was on the other length of the line had no relevance. An electric winch which jams in the "on" position is incredibly dangerous and could easily pull someone's hand off should it become trapped. The procedure to prevent this is to have an easily accessible circuit breaker on a dedicated winch circuit (usually somewhere close to the bottom of the companionway). If the winch jams in the "on" position, a free crew member simply runs downstairs and knocks the circuit out. In a seaway one should generally never attempt to unwind the rope from the running winch for fear of getting something trapped.

The point that I, and I think others, are making is that the follow on from this is that an electric winch should never be self-tailed when winching someone aloft. To prove this for yourself; next time you are on your boat attach something like a heavy fender to the end of your main halyard. Then get a friend to press the winch power button. At a point of his choosing (say as the fender passes the D1 stay) he will call STOP, but keep the winch button pressed. Your job is to CAREFULLY take the free end of the line pouring out of the self-tailer, remove it from the self-tail mechanism and stop the halyard. Then look to see how far the fender has traveled up the mast!