electric to pedal water pump conversion

gfbalduc

gfbalduc

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Joined
16 Nov 2005
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189
Location
me:Milan - boat:N.Adriatic
www.shaula3.ws
I am trying to find the best solution to add foot-operated pumps to my pressurised-water system.
The idea would be to:
1) have a backup in case the electric pump fails, and
2) to be able to switch off the electric pump and use the foot-operated pump to reduce water consumption when at sea

I was thinking of inserting two foot-pumps (one at the kitchen and one in the toilet) on the existing cold-water pipes, between the accumulator tank and the existing tap (to be kept in the open position, of course).

This way, I would not have pressure to get hot water, but that would be acceptable.

Has anybody done the same? I am concerned of two potential pitfalls:

- would the pressurised-water system be able to push water through the foot-pump?
- would the foot-pump work with the existing taps when fully-opened?

Any better solution to suggest?

TIA
 
I am doing this, but approaching it a different way.

My foot pump will deliver to the galley, but I am installing a completely separate tap.
The feed to the foot pump is teed into the outlet pipe from the tank to the pump, thus ensuring it is not pressurised.
In addtion to this, I am having a seawater inlet cock and a gated Y valve near the foot pump, so that I can switch between fresh water and sea water if I wish. In the line from the foot pump, I will install the same type of filter that are installed elsewhere on the boat, so that I wont have to carry too many spares. This is mainly for the washing up of plates and rinsing.
This has the obvious advantage of giving complete separation if the electric system fails, and should preserve water stocks on passage.

I bought the Whale foot pump on ebay for 16 quid, and have just bought a 25m reel of Whale plastic reinforced 15mm hose for 9 quid. The tap was 11 quid, also Whale.
As it is one of my long term jobs, I will wait for other equipment to be available cheaply!

Without an isolation valve, you would not be able to use the existing taps., which just complicates the system.
Do you really need another in the heads/shower area? If so, you could repeat the installation with a 3 way manifold, but I think it is of limited value, as it is an emergency backup, and can be carried in a bucket to the toilet area!
 
Hi,

All you need to do is insert the (Whale Galley pump for example) pump in the hose feeding the particular tap you are supplying. When the pressure system is operating the water flows through the foot pump to the tap, and when it's off, pumping the Whale pump with your foot will deliver water to the same tap as normal.

In our case (the galley) the foot pump is only about four feet from the tap and this is how Westerly fitted the system on my boat 22 years ago. It's perfect!

The same would apply of course, if you also fitted the same (or similar) manual pump in the heads, though we haven't bothered with this.
 
Hi Jim,

> Without an isolation valve, you would not be able to use the existing taps., which just complicates the system. <

Sorry, that just isn't so. See my post above. A failure of the electric pressure system has no effect whatsoever on the use of the manual pump, which operates just as normal. In short, this has to be one of the simplest mods to do on a boat's water system.

As I suggest, simply cut into the existing hose supplying the tap concerned feeding the tank supply end to the inlet of the manual pump. Connect the other cut end to the outlet of the pump and ..... job done!!

It really is that straightforward!!
 
Sorry jerry, disagaree. If you raise the tap valve and allow the water to flow, thats what triggers the electric pump to cut in, so merely opening the tap starts the pump, not what you want.
The OVNI has the same technology mixer tap that my Jeanneau has.
 
I disagree. I fitted an inline pump to my previous manual system.

The pump, pressure switch, non-return valve and inline filter are fitted upstream of the old whale foot pump.

The pressure system works fine, but with the power off, the manual pump efficiency has been much reduced, the foot pump pumps on the down stroke but is very slow to return, and hence pump on the upstroke. Probably something to do with the nonretun valve. I would recommend a seperate tap for the manual system.
 
Oh, of course you are right Jim, IF you leave the electric pump on, otherwise what I said works! I can't see why you would WANT to use the footpump if the electric pump was on!
 
Hi Stork III,

That may very well be the case on your boat/system, however that isn't the case on mine. The Whale pumps water from the tap on both the up and down strokes, and requires little foot pressure to operate. We don't use a non-return valve as it isn't necessary.

Could it be that you've got a fairly long run to the tap from the tank? Where this was the case on a Rival 41 I did a Pond circuit in, 'manual' pumping was hard work and very slow. In our case with a 'small' boat, the runs are very short. The total distance from the tank to the galley tap (via the electric pump, filter and manual pump) is about 11 feet!!

The only other things that might cause a similar problem is a blocked (or fouled) in-line filter, a restricted non-return valve, or perhaps a kink in the pipework somewhere along the line.
 
Hi Jim again!

I should also have mentioned I suppose, that we only have a manual 'back-up pump to the galley tap, with that in the heads being fed electrically. UNLESS the electric pump is switched off/breaks down, when pumping the galley Whale pump powers water from the heads tap too!

No good if you're on your own of course, but with two aboard it does work beautifully!!
 
Not 100% sure on this but if your freshwater pump is a multiport diaphragm one (eg Shureflo, Flojet) then I believe that you cannot push or suck water through it with another pump, so the foot operated valve has to be valved to bypass it. I have not checked the freshwater pumps for this but it is so for the same design pumps used for grey water, etc (on our own boat we rely on that plus a back up non return valve to stop backflooding the boat through the grey water seacock). So if using that type of pump, might pay to check first - unless some forumite knows the definitive answer.

We carry a spare water pump so only have one foot valve plumbed into the system as a backup, but is out of sight just inside a locker in the galley where we use most water. It is enabled by one 2 way valve - for the life of me I cannot remember if I specified it to pressurise the whole system or just the galley (I suspect the whole system) and exactly how it is plumbed - it has never in 9 years been used /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

Our foot pump position does not meet your desire for everyday use while at sea to cut down water usage but if you do not get the replies you want PM me and I'll check how ours is plumbed and sketch it up - you will just need to put the foot pump where you want it.

If uncontrolled water use with the electric pump is a problem have you considered placing simple orifice plate restricters in each of the lines to the taps (as often used to balance flow for domestic washing machine water supplies to reduce flow in the cold water if the hot water is low pressure)?

John
 
>>>I can't see why you would WANT to use the footpump if the electric pump was on! >>.
To use the sea water option Jerry! Thats what saves the water.
 
Jim

I would be interested to know what precautions You have taken so as to avoid the risk of contaminating the fresh water tank with salt water if valves mis-set.

Maybe I have not understood your arrangement enuff?

Agree that use of salt water is a great saver of fresh and we use it in galley and bathroom, but plumbed entirely separate from the fresh.

John
 
Exactly what's puzzling me Pussy!! I think Jim should have a totally SEPARATE system for salt water. That's what we have anyway, and yes Jim, it does save water!!

Good luck with whatever system you decide to install!! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Merry Christmas to you and yours!!
 
The salt water joins in a gated Y valve near the foot pump. With the inlet seacock I have that is about a 6 foot run to the valve.
The fresh take off is teed from the outlet to the electric pump, and is about a 15 foot run to the Y valve. As the Y valve is switched, the flow is never shared, excepting above the foot pump, which is about a 3 foot run to the tap. Therefore the total "contamination" is restricted to approx 0.1 litres of water.
Remember that this tap is not connected at all to the electrically driven main hot/cold.

As I said at the beginning, I am to install this over the next couple of months, and have amssed the bits slowly to keep the cost down.
 
Thanks all for the valuable inputs!
I understand the ability to suck water through the electric pump is a potential pitfall I had not considered.

I already have a completely independent sea-water circuit, and the foot-operated pumps on the freshwater system would mainly be to reduce freshwater consumption, hence a pump in the lavatory as well as in the galley.

For backup purposes, in fact carrying a spare may well be the simplest solution, I will probably have to do it anyway!

Luckily, doing some tests before committing to a solution is not too difficult.

Thanks again and merry Christmas to all!
 
HI to all, I am new to this forum and living in Italy.

I have following piping schema:



T=> EP ==> Y to outside shower
.................Y ST=> FP => toilet tap
Where
T=Water Thank
EP=Electric Pump
Y= Y pipe connection
ST=Security closing tap
FP= Foot Pump

Before the footpump (Whale Galley) there is a closing tap to prevent damage to the footpump.
So everytime I use the shower I have to manually act on this closing tap.
Any idea to avoid the tap before the manual pump?
Thanks
Renzo
 
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