Electric Bilge Pump, saved a boat?

Yellow Ballad

Yellow Ballad

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Firstly I should say I'm in the camp of K.I.S.S (keep it simple stupid), so I'm laying on the side of not to fit one.

My boat hasn't got a electric bilge pump, only a manual Whale in the cockpit. I'm 100 miles away from the boat but when it's on the water it's vary rare I don't go down every couple of weeks occasionally I might push it to three. There's never been enough water in the bilge to worry me but I do wonder if it's worth putting an auto pump in? The only time I can imagine getting enough water in the bilge would be from a component failure so the pump would just run till it or the batteries died and then be useless, unless I was on the boat and I would hopefully be aware of the leak/bucket full of water down the hatch. The boat's not got AC so just the 12v batteries and a small solar panel for topping up.

Has anyone been saved by an auto pump or is it just something people use to pump out a bit of rain water and stop them worrying? I always shut the sea cocks when I leave the boat (but even if I didn't and a hose split, I wouldn't be back at the boat before it was too late I would have thought).

So am I crazy/stupid for not fitting one? Has anyone been saved by one? I'm open to hear pros and cons.
 
I've never had an automatic bilge pump, and don't really feel the need for one. If I owned a leaky wooden boat (I don't and I never have), I might be tempted to fit one. But modern(ish) fibreglass boats should be basically dry inside. Added to that there's the fact that, despite their claimed performance, the actual real-world performance of electric bilge pumps is pretty poor, OK to keep up with a persistent drip, but not with a serious leak.
 
Float switches are pretty unreliable in my experience, so I wouldn't want to be relying on one.
You can work out roughly how much water your pump and batteries would shift- take pump performance, knock off a bit for real world performance, take current, calculated based on size of battery bank. It's likely to be a fairly small number.

It might be better to look into an SMS based system that alerts you when the float switch is tripped- you could then call someone local, or try to get to the boat yourself.
 
I wouldn’t be too concerned, Tom. The Club has a good record of noticing when a vessel is not floating to her lines. When the boats are in the water, Sundance will be viewed by dozens of eyes every day. We have had founderings when a Westerly or two had their bilge keels ripped off by the mud, but to my knowledge, no fins. The biggest cause of almost sinkings is when people forget to reattach hoses after maintenance.
 
Boat changed hands on the local river. Known to need a little constant pumping and coped with two batteries and two pumps. New owner missed a trick and left it with one flat battery and one pump with a tricky switch on the good battery. Down she went... We got her back up, but the outcome is not good.
Also recent experience with float switches is not encouraging. Had two fail in the space of a few months from new.
So, if worried, Kelpie's SMS idea is a good start.
 
Yes I'm underwhelmed by them - last season I fitted a new float switch. When we left the boat last October I discovered the switch had jammed on and that was the cause of our batteries woes. The boat is on a trot mooring, we haven't been to it since October, with everything switched off. It's in Porthmadog harbour, which is over looked on every side, so I'm assuming someone would get in touch if it sank! :rolleyes:
 
In my opinion, the shallower and smaller the bilge, the bigger the bilge pump needs to be. I have one manual plus two electric bilge pumps because I find the thought of taking in water and not being able to get rid of it at the same rate it flows in disquieting.
 
If you do decide to install one you should consider what you are willing to invest. The small submersible pumps do a reasonable job for not too much money, but small high speed diaphragm pumps are much more effective though expensive. We installed a very good electric diaphragm pump (Whale) in my previous boat but it was about £150, you can fit 3 Rule submersible pumps for that.
 
Keep mine on a local swinging mooring and just now the the only auto bilge is in the stern behind a watertight bulkhead so only a couple of skin fitting and a stern gland to worry about, there's nothing in the engine bay forward and about 5 under water fittings to worry about so I have ordered a large capacity pump with an auto switch built in for a simple instal, I hope it never runs apart from when I flood it for checks.
I drive past the boat all the time so knowing where the boot top should sit is the best assurance, if it went down cause I didn't fit one I wouldn't be happy
 
snowbird30ds said:
It's probably more a question of how your insurance company would look at it if it sunk without one, it may be worth having just to ensure a payout if it does go wrong rather than actually preventing a sinking.
Click to expand...

If the insurer hasn't specifically said that an automatic bilge pump must be fitted, how could they refuse a claim?
 
There's also the argument that a pump left on auto will mask any problems with water ingress- unless you have some way of knowing how much it has been running.

I actually have a bilge pump fitted with an auto switch, but I leave it switched off, since the float switch is too unreliable and doesn't cut off when the bilge is dry. Nearly wrecked one my batteries...
 
Snoopy463 said:
I wouldn’t be too concerned, Tom. The Club has a good record of noticing when a vessel is not floating to her lines. When the boats are in the water, Sundance will be viewed by dozens of eyes every day. We have had founderings when a Westerly or two had their bilge keels ripped off by the mud, but to my knowledge, no fins. The biggest cause of almost sinkings is when people forget to reattach hoses after maintenance.
Click to expand...

Hi Alan, yes that was the other thought and one reason I'm glad I'm in the Pill. She's survived 45 years without one so I'm not massively concerned but I wanted to make sure I wasn't being a fool.

To be fair hearing about pipe length and hight killing flow rates I was impressed by this video, he has one of a 3700gph which seems to emply the barrel pretty quickly. (I've not listened with sound)


Ken, totally agree. If I were to fit one it's not worth skimping.

Kelpie, I did think a SMS dialler might be a good idea but it goes against my K.I.S.S. philosophy.

Food for thought, thanks.
 
Sorry this post grew like Topsy but -....None of you have mentioned the instance of being aboard and needing MAXIMUM EFFORT to fight the flow. I can assure you it focusses the gluteous maximus. If all you are worried about is insurance - as it seems, you should contact directly... I think you will find that you should have taken sensible precautions, so if absent for an extended period there should be some system installed to cater for reasonable issues. When the fan turns brown however, you will bring every feasible water-moving machine into play, and a whale in the cockpit gets very slow very quickly once the adrenolin fades. I would fit the largest electric pump allowed considering : space in bilge, electrical capacity available and finally, price. The major functional issue appears to be the sensing of water ingress. I know some pumps have a whizz every few minutes and check current load (no water = low amps) but they apparently suck too much power when the boat is unattended if alternate charge is not good/available. Float switches used to be OK when they were mercury whetted but no doubt the safety police have banned them. I use a washing machine level sensor attached by a tube to a plastic bottle cut to a bell shape. I test it when the boat is lifted and the freshwater tanks are drained into the bilge - always works. It also has a buzzer fitted which tells me something is happening down there. Trust me, you shouldn't take this lightly, especially if you don't have the stamina to work a whale at full stroke for a prolonged period.
 
One reason I will definitely refit my float switch - or try another type of switch, was an experience we had on our first cruise to get the boat back "home". We had an awful crossing from Lundy to Milford, something like 14hrs pounding through the weather. This was the end of a trip from Emsworth. Unknown to us the stern gland had started leaking sometime in that last haul to Milford. I know I should have checked the bilges regularly! Especially as I knew the auto bilge switch was knackered. The leak had filled our 4ft bilge and was within millimetres of the top of the battery terminals under the cabin sole. An auto bilge pump would have taken care of that leak easily! ....:o
 
The cheap £10 pumps (1100gph) from China do a pretty good job. I do have a Rule or Whale 3700gph (not too sure of that figure) pump that really pushes a lot of water, but I am going to sell it because new they are about £100 and I only paid £40 for it (new / old stock).

I made a water sensing switch for about £4 (a very simple design) that does the job better than the automatic pumps that turn on and then off if they sense no water (waste of electricity and wear and tear on pump) (Whale or Rule is the one that I found on my boat) and have been handing the switches out like sweets to mates at my sailing club and so far all is good.

For not a lot of money it gives me peace of mind and no problems from the setup to date.
 
No ordinary boat battery setup will pump out enough water to stop a moored boat sinking. It will just delay the inevitable. It takes a lot of water to actually sink you.

On most GRP boats I'd say it's about even odds the risk of an unattended boat on her moorings sinking because of not having an auto bilge pump left on, and burning to the waterline because of an electric fault in the bilge pump/battery circuit left on. Both are fairly remote chances. I have never heard of an insurance company requiring an auto bilge pump.
 
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