Eclipse has been found afloat

As I said I have been there not once but a number of times. As a Professional seagoing engineer for six years with Manchester Liners I have Worked on a fore deck winch on one day and the next time I was able to get out there three days later to do more work it was no longer there. We had a life boat totally riped away on another trip.
On a 30ft yacht on a cross channel trip Jersey to Plymouth with 55-60 kt winds in an electric storm with a reefed in try sail set alone and coping we where in a situation where you come over/off the top of a huge wave and you loose all feel on the helm because the rudder has come out of the water and you start to charge down at 10/15 knots after 13 to 14 hrs of this (on something that makes the big one at Blackpool look like a kids joy ride) and come almost to a stand still on the way up the other side knowing you have to do your best to set her up to go over the top of the next one. Believe me You say more than one Prayer. Anything and everything thats loose jammed in between the fore cabin bunks, you hope to high heaven that you do not encounter any other shipping that you might have to take some sort of action so as to NOT be in the general direction you are going in. Thrown out of a bunk more than once. You find bruises appear and you can not remember what caused them. When you eventually come out of the other side you find most of the rig has stretched and it looks like bunch of loose knitting. and than you thank God it all stayed together.
Off the north cost of Anglesey again raising 50Knts with the Skerries ahead of us, decision to make, go in or out side that one was easy the Irish sea is quite often like that.
YES I Have been there.
And as I said I would not stand in the way of any one wishing to take assistance if it was offered but I have also witnessed a PRO descending and ascending to the cockpit of a yacht in an exercise in relatively calm seas off Valley Anglesey and in any thing of a sea it would be very trying indeed to the point of an injury easily being sustained by an untrained person, but again I fully appreciate that decision to go would be at that moment in time.
My statement in my first post was I would not go for an (air bag) "Life raft" in that kind of seas, and certainly not until the boat was in dire risk of sinking under me. That doe's not mean I would not do all in my efforts to prepare for it.
I have now read the report of the encounters of Eclipse I certainly wish the crew of "Eclipse" a happy outcome that they are reunited with their yacht and are able to return to their plans if they wish to do so.
 
Re: Eclipse has been found afloat - lessons?

In the spirit of the MAIB - improving the safety of life at sea and the avoidance of accidents in future ....it is not the purpose .....to apportion blame - and the likes of Peter Bruce's 'Heavy Weather Sailing', there's a lot to glean from this incident.

However, it is simply untrue that catamarans cannot be capsized by wave action alone, as suggested by some - including Michael Ellison, who has been in some himself, and has commented in PBO. Here's a well-known example, written by journalist and lucky survivor John Passmore, which bears re-reading:

Lottie Warren

One of the things to emerge from this was that designer Pat Patterson recanted his opinion of the 'defence sequence' to be adopted. Clearly, running off towing a warp did not work for Lottie Warren - a Paterson design. And certainly Richard Woods was well aware of Pat Paterson's 'sea change' following the loss of LW, for they were neighbours and competitors.

There is a large and expanding body of published evidence that catamarans are best aided - in severe ocean storms - by deploying a suitably-robust para-anchor. It seems clear that Richard Woods' gear was not sufficiently robust.

For example, his bridles broke under the loads - and chafe! As did his tired foredeck trampoline. So, they simply weren't strong enough - and they were inadequately protected from chafe. ( UV degraded, perhaps? ) The parachute diameter was 9 feet. One might conclude that this was too small for the loads imparted by the boat. A larger one - say, 18 feet - would have spread and reduced the loads on the panels and lift-webs ( or cords ). A very long stretchy nylon rode is recommended, for several reasons, and one gets the impression from his text that Richard's was too short to do the job properly.

Think 'conventional parachute' - would you rather have a small one which just slows you down a bit before you impact the earth, or a large one that brings you down slowly and gently.....?

Chafe is a matter that few yotties bother to address in advance of need, but is quite easy to prepare for. There are lots of time-expired fire hoses discarded each year. Sections of these slid onto the inboard ends of one's anchoring and other warps - with attached cords to keep 'em in place once deployed - will do a very good and cheap job. A look at one's fairleads is also indicated.

Then there is the question of preparation for an abandonment. To paraphrase a TV ad - 'What's in your grab bag?'

This is not a harangue. I'm likely to go 'blue water' later this year myself, so I'm thinking it through for myself now.

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I think that people are being judgemental on two counts here.

Firstly to describe those that stripped the boat as thieving scumbags is a bit strong.The boat had been abandoned, is probably too far out to be relocated or towed anywhere and they may be extremely poor people that did the thieving .

As to the decision to abandon .To turn down an offer of immediate rescue in desperate conditions could well have resulted in loss of life ,all any boat is is a collection of metal plastic and wood in varying percentages.

It has to be a credit to the design that it survived just lying ahull.
 
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they may be extremely poor people that did the thieving.

[/ QUOTE ]

Apart from the fact that "extremely poor people" are unlikely to be far offshore I have never thought that being short of a few bob was justification for theft.

No, "scumbags" was a fair description.
 
neither of us know who stripped the boat or where exactly so its a bit academic but I think these guys were far less criminal than the"scumbags" who strip boats on isolated moorings to make nice little earners on Ebay or boat jumbles.
 
I agree that the E bay thieves are scumbags, but I'm not convinced that simply because a boat is offshore they are somehow a lesser breed of scumbag. It's still theft!
 
Re: Eclipse has been found afloat - lessons?

I agree with several of your points about the parachute.

It was a cargo chute and Richard reported that he had tried it several years before. I suspect that the material and especially the stitching was not proof against sea water and had rotted, and I also suspect that it had not been rinsed in fresh water. 18 ft would appear to be the size for a boat as large as the eclipse from all the parachute anchor sites.

Chafe is vital to protect and I plan to use chain for those parts of the bridle that will be subject to chafe (as I do with my permanent mooring) having nearly lost my boat through chafe in the past.

The forces on the cleats should not be underestimated, and if planning to use a parachute (or series drogue), the cleats need to be strengthened for the task.

The danger of the broach must not be underestimated, and it would appear that Lottie Warren was travelling too fast, thus needed more junk out the stern with the warps to slow her down.
 
Re: Eclipse has been found afloat - lessons?

From all I've read about para anchors I am not convinced. I certaily could not deploy one on Belladonna - the cleats are far too flimsy and it would be one hell of a job to make them strong enough - probably reinforcing the whole bow area. Stowing one on board would be difficult enough. Deploying it at sea would probably be dangerous (yes, I know about pre-preparation and setting it from the cockpit).

I think I'll have to accept that Belladonna ain't and ocean cruising vessel within the meaning of the act and behave accordingly.
 
Re: Eclipse has been found afloat - lessons?

Thats the main problem with the latest french designs where they use a patio door as the entrance to the saloon level from the cockpit. Too flimsy up forward for the parachute, and too vulnerable down aft for a series drogue (my preferred solution).
 
Re: Eclipse has been found afloat - lessons?

The latest replies underscore much of the 'big issue' with these techniques and others.

If the forward cleats are flimsy, it is surely sound seamanship to beef them up? Just as we encourage new owners of certain German production AWBs to beef up their backstay fittings to something 'fit for sea', others should check their cleats and winches are through-bolted into deck pads - or at least, fitted with large plate washers to spread the loads. Otherwise, they'll likely pull out and fly overboard when really loaded up...

A twin bridle can be brought back to the sheet winches - which is quite a good idea. Load can be spread easily and cheaply into the hull using several rope loops, attached to the anchor rode by simple Prusik knots/rolling hitches, and either snaplinked to the toe rail or looped over other deck cleats. It's an old detail of seamanship once much used to spread the load of the anchor cable into the hull.

That simple process makes one's boat capable of being towed, by a lifeboat or other powered vessel, where the snatch loads could easily pull out a foredeck cleat - and with it, half the foredeck.

I'd happily show JJ how, and maybe we could make an article out of it.....? Worth a beer or two.....?

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Now I do not know a whole lot about seabirds and where they go, but those birds do not look the sort that venture 1800miles from shore. Do you think the fishermen are talking porkies about it's location?

W
 
Wayne, I was gob-smacked at how much bird-life there is in the middle of the pond and the birds have no fear of humans. When I tried chasing them off Stingo, they simply sqawked at me with a look of "Who the Feck do you think you are"
 
Re: Barstewards?

If I found a boat drifting like that, my first thought would be - what happened to the crew? With a recently abandoned boat there is a reasonable chance that there are family somewhere wondering what happened to father etc. Or maybe the crew are drifting around in a liferaft somewhere, and the fact that the yacht has been apparently abandoned would be useful SAR info.

So the obvious step of any right-minded individual is first to strip the winches, electronics off etc. THEN report that the yacht has been found and claim/negotiate salvage compensation etc,
 
Is it really theft? An abandoned boat, not just off its moorings for a few hours but weeks out in the pacific, kind of like beachcombing isn't it? Rather on the lines of walking the dog and finding a big bag with ££ on the side stuffed with 50's, what do you do next?

Probably it is theft, but also so understandable as to make pejorative descriptions of the thievers ott.

Anyway it was probably some transpac yottie on the make.
 
latest:

Tuna fishermen have told yacht designer Richard Woods, 51, it would cost £30,000 plus a salvage fee to tow his derelict 32ft catamaran Eclipse 1,000 miles to Ecuador. The boat was stripped of all her gear by ocean pirates.

Eclipse is to be left 'floating ready for the next person to find it,' Woods said. 'If you know anyone who wants to try to bring it to shore for us, the approximate position is 5N 110W. But bear in mind Eclipse is missing all sails, engine, electronics,
boom, all running rigging and no doubt much else. We can give you the name
of the fishing agent in Panama if you are serious,' Woods said.

Woods and his girlfriend were airlifted off the yacht ten weeks ago in a storm.'In reality, we assume Eclipse will continue to be a safe haven for seabirds
for some time to come,' he added.
 
Not very fair - the hindsight that everybody's using is the '79 fastnet which has been drummed into everyone on an RYA course ever since - stay with the boat over a liferaft every time.

However, the helicopter overhead makes a huge difference, though (and this is with hindsight) they took a bigger risk in the transfer than if they'd stayed aboard.
 
The man made the right decision at the time: things were bad and might have got worse, the chopper isn't going to come back tomorrow to see if you really did need taking off, or not. The hindsight is that we all know the boat was going to stay afloat. With human intervention it might not have.

The skipper may not always be right, but he's always the skipper.
 
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