Ebespacher running overnight when sleeping on board

I use my D4 system regularly at night, still around to say it's never been a problem for us!

CO is very dangerous but so is CO2: excess CO2 can kill, low level headache, lethargy, accellerated heart rate, death! It's used in lethal chambers to cull rodents and the like!
 
as stated previously CO is the killer so you need to prevent CO in the cabin, this can happen in a few ways:

dodgy or broken exhaust fitting releases CO back to where the "clean" air is drawn from, Eberspacher heats the "clean" air and pumps it along the ducts into the cabin...but now with added CO!!!


Poorly installed system has the exhaust too near the "clean" air intake for the system...ditto warm air into cabin with added CO


you're sleeping with windows open (not likely) and the exhaust blows into your boat...


Of course it's not just you.....if your neighbour has an Eberspacher they could be running their exhaust near your clean air intake OR near your open portholes - with same catastrophic results.



get yourself to B&Q and buy a couple of CO (not smoke) detectors.
 
All good advice so far but please take caution.

Have a read of this MAIB report, it illustrates further the need for detection equipment, having read it I fitted a CO monitor to our own boat for piece of mind.

It's a PDF so please wait for it to load & read it.

http://www.maib.gov.uk/cms_resources/chapter2.pdf

Hope you all have a very happy New Year /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
 
Hi Doug,

We use ours whenever we need it whether that be tied up or at 30 knots. The important thing is to make sure the clean air intake is from somewhere like the cockpit and not in the engine bay where there could be exhaust fumes. As already said this could circulate CO through the vents and not good.

There are a lot of eberspachers which have a silencer in line on the exhaust (me included) I believe these are not designed to be used on a boat as the seals are just rolled edges and not welded and could be an area for exhaust leakage and even more reason to have the clean air pickup well away from the engine bay.

Skiing on the 10th of Jan. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
In a former life I was a truck techie. Yes Webasto and Eberspachers as one person pointed out were often fitted in the cab, under the passenger seat, with the exhaust vented outside.
Fine if the system is in good condition and insects don't build a nest in the exhaust.

The only real danger is in the chamber or exhaust piping leaking fumes.

It must be realised that a truck cab is very well ventilated too.

However it must be said that any diesel burning does produce CO, especially if airflow to the combustor is restricted by prescribed spider nest, probably not to the levels of a diesel engine under load mind you and certainly nowhere near what a petrol engine pushes out, but a significant percentage nevertheless.

CO2 once it reaches high concentrations in the air also becomes toxic, I believe 5% springs to mind.

As other postees pointed out though, it is CO2 which is the main exhaust constituent other than nitrogen and oxides thereof. Probably as much as 8 - 10% of the flue gas will be CO2 and in a sealed bathtub like a boat, where the sleepers head may well be below the level of the hull, this gas being heavier than air can fill the hull and suffocate the sleeper.

Well maintained night heaters are very safe, but it is vitally important to treat the exhaust as VERY DANGEROUS STUFF that can kill. Maybe not today, but someday, someone will die because of a night heater.

The other thing to remember is you are introducing another source of ignition to the boat while you are sleeping and providing it with a ready source of fuel.

Now you know the risks, it is up to you to provide ways to reduce them to your satisfaction and be able to sleep soundly.

Just please, please do not rate diesel exhaust as inconsequential. I refuse to participate in a US boating forum anymore because of this attitude.
The attitude that particular poster had about the exhaust being safe will one day get another poor post reader killed, because he will dump a diesel generator onto the well of his boat, start it up, retire to his cabin and die.
All because some idiot told him that diesel exhaust is safe. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
I will not participate in the vehicle that leads to someones death.

Sorry for the last paragraph being a rant, but it is something I feel very strongly about. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Run your heater if you want, but know the risks first.

Besides we are Englishmen and smarter than the Yanks aren't we? /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
Good post - We all agree both CO and CO2 are dangerous gasses in higher concentrations.

Rather than using both a CO and CO2 monitor, perhaps an oxygen depletion monitor (ODM) may be best, to protect against both!

We are tending to use them more and more these days in medical research lab design where CO2 is frequently used (fed to incubators) and also in liquid nitrogen rooms!

Better to be safe than dead I suppose!

At the very least ensure a timeclock is installed! What we tend to do is set the timer to switch-off say in half an hour after we have gone to bunk and to switch-on again half an hour before we intend to rise!

With good quality bedding it has never been a problem. I stayed on the boat for a few days in Brighton in Feb with 100mm of snow on the pontoon!

We also ensure the sleeping area always has some ventilation, increases heat loss I know.

Having read all of the posts though, I think I may now investigate installing an ODM and interlock the alarm contacts with my timeclock, to switch-off the system in the event of activation!
 
Hi Doug,
Have a great night /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I have spent a few nights with serious ice / snow on the outside of the boat.

I have a Carbon Monoxide detector, I do not run the Eber or webastoe overnight.

I get the boat hot then use a carefully placed electric fan heater on thermostat.
as soon as I wake up I put the eber/webastoe on to heat up.

cheers

Pete

I know 4 people and a dog who nearly died because the fumes came back in an open hatch.

Ladies had to be helped out, dog had to be carried out.

Nice way for anyone old to go, just fall asleep nice and warm and thats it.
 
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(cut) and healing over.

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Glad to know you are getting better /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

BTW, I don't think anyone said that diesel exhaust was harmless in this thread. I said CO2 suffocates, whereas CO poisons and I stand by that. But sorry I got the lip colour wrong - it's a long time since I had a valid 1st Aid cert!

Also, in that MAIB report, the source of the CO was from the main engine exhaust. The heater was simply the mechanism for delivering them to the victims. Fortunately, they were awake & realised what was happening. But there was no fault with the heater - although the fresh air intake might have been better sited.
 
[ QUOTE ]

Nice way for anyone old to go, just fall asleep nice and warm and thats it.

[/ QUOTE ]

My experience was splitting headache, sick feeling turning to bile retching nausea - so I turned the heater up a bit! Perhaps I didn't get the concentration of CO high enough for just drifting off.

Beware flu-like feelings - of course they may just be the flu!
 
we set ours for a half hour after we bunk down and again in morning before we get up like a few others here do.

Having read the MAIB report, will head down to boat tomorrow to check position of air intake,

HOT AIR GETTING COLDER
Any thoughts on how to keep the hot air hot? we have an Antares 980 with an eber heater. Lovely and warm in saloon (which is closest outlet to unit) However the outlets in the two cabins for'd produce tepid to coldish air! The main cabin doesnt really heat up despite the heat being on for a while.

i know there is a long run of tube to carry hot air from engine bay to for'd cabin where air can cool down. is there an easy way to insulate and keep the hot air hot all the way to the main cabin. It's a 32 foot boat, so it doesnt have to travel that far!

tommiedee
 
Re: Anybody heard from

Decided not to run it and used oil filled electric radiators instead.
ran it while cruising to and from the marina so the cabin was nice and toasty....
Thanks for all the useful comments about CO and CO2 detectors....
on the to do list....
 
With regard to hot air to one inlet: Possible balancing problem? Try throttling the outlet with the highest air flow down a bit to increase its branch resistance, hot air may then pass to the next outlet with least resistance!

I suppose a possible solution if there is space, might be to install a return air duct back to the fresh-air inlet to mix (recirculate) return air as it enters the heater. This will reduce the ventilation load on the heater significantly in winter.
 
I sleep often with Eberspacher on. No problems. It's safe. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Regarding throttling back one outlet to better distribute warm flow. Be carefull !!
I tried this and the heater broke down. I had to call out the service engineer at great expense
/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

The engineer said it had logged overheats and shut itself down refusing to re-start.

I then had to confess what I'd done and put it back as it was.
/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

So it hadn't broken down. It was doing what it was supposed to do. Protect me from myself /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
 
Mmmmm The internal fan should be sized to deliver a maximum volume flow rate of air against a maximum external resistance (static pressure).

If installed properly, it should be capable of delivering this volume to the highest resistance outlet (the index run), all intermediate branches are then throttled down to balance design air flows at the resistance of the index run.

If you throttle down all outlets of course, or if ducts are undersized, then you will have too high resistance and the volume or air will reduce, it sounds as if you reduced the volume flow rate to a point where the heater tripped on high-temp. A properly designed/installed/operated system should not do this.

I have D4 on my T34 and have ballanced the air flows and volume flow rates, all systems work fine and heat the forward and aft cabins, saloon and if I open it up the cockpit - just as they should.

To reduce duct resistance you can of course reduce bends or perhaps install larger diametre ducts to long runs if possible!
 
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