Eberspacher problems again

[Murv]

D4 airtronic, had a new ECU fitted about 18 months ago and ran perfectly for about a Year.
A few months ago, it took a couple of attempts to light, this got progressively worse until last weekend where I pulled it out for a service.
The chamber was actually fairly clean inside, I changed the gaskets and the gauze around the glow plug. The plug itself looked in good condition, but I gave it a light sanding anyway.
Reassembled it and it fired up first time :encouragement:

Sadly, this seemed to be a bit of a red herring, as it's taken 3 or 4 attempts before firing ever since.
It runs through all of its cycles/checks etc OK, but bellows white smoke before shutting down.
Voltage is good, what else can I try before twirling it into the skip?

 

[knuterikt]

Does it start and run ok after 4th attempt?

 

[Murv]

Does it start and run ok after 4th attempt?

Yes, once running, it runs faultlessly. It ran for 8 days straight over Xmas!

 

[RIBW]

D4 airtronic, .......what else can I try before twirling it into the skip?

Have you worked through Roy's excellent advice?
https://www.letonkinoisvarnish.uk/eberspacher_faults_2.html
And have you looked at P28/29 of the ESPAR version of the D4 documentation.
In any case, don't ditch it - please donate it to Roy so we all benefit
Cheers
Bob
[Currently Fault Finding on my spare D4]

 

[dom]

Hi Murv, do you have a controller which enables you do download fault codes from the aborted starts?

 

[Murv]

Thanks both, I did work through the list, but did the service as recommended and it's not a lot better.

Dom, I can get fault codes, I can't remember what it was before but think it was a flame-out. (Error 8 or 52, possibly both?) I'll check it tomorrow though.

 

[dom]

Dom, I can get fault codes, I can't remember what it was before but think it was a flame-out. (Error 8 or 52, possibly both?) I'll check it tomorrow though.

Ok great. Possibly a dodgy flame sensor; if you can easily get access to it, see if you can check the connections and measure the resistance across the flame sensor to check whether it is within specified range.

Have a look at P34 of the attached manual for expected range. and also steps 64 & 65 on p26, which defines the fault ranges..
https://www.butlertechnik.com/downloads/Airtronic_D2_D4_workshop_manual_2.pdf

And finally, do quickly confirm voltage at the unit during the start sequence when max current is being drawn. Good luck!

 

[pcatterall]

Quote
And finally, do quickly confirm voltage at the unit during the start sequence when max current is being drawn. Good luck!
Read more at http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?494900-Eberspacher-problems-again#k2QTlAH2q8lpg1GK.99

No!!! do that first!!

 

[dom]

Quote
And finally, do quickly confirm voltage at the unit during the start sequence when max current is being drawn. Good luck!
Read more at http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?494900-Eberspacher-problems-again#k2QTlAH2q8lpg1GK.99

No!!! do that first!!

Good point!!

 

[Murv]

Brilliant, thanks both :encouragement:

 

[pcatterall]

Poor batteries, overlong power leads and bad connections represent about 50% of issues that I resolve with my heater kit customers!
In Murv's case once that issue is checked it does become a problem where everything has to be checked including fuel supply and the performance of all the bits like glow pin, heat/flame sensors etc, just a step by step approach,

 

[mdonnelly]

Recently had a similar problem. Changed the fuel and all ok.

 

[dom]

Poor batteries, overlong power leads and bad connections represent about 50% of issues that I resolve with my heater kit customers!
In Murv's case once that issue is checked it does become a problem where everything has to be checked including fuel supply and the performance of all the bits like glow pin, heat/flame sensors etc, just a step by step approach,

+1, my D8LC certainly throws up weird error codes if the power supply is dicky. Only mentioned flame sensor as I once had a unit showing Fault #52 with almost identical symptoms.to Murv's and it was indeed the flame sensor .....not obviously bust, just produced temperature-variant resistances outside what the ECU wanted to see.

BTW I know you are an expert on these things, but as an amateur what I hate most about mending them is being wedged into some confounded hole, hanging upside-down into a locker, or worse
.

 

[mainsail1]

I have just had the same type of problem. All the experts said it was a faulty flame sensor but luckily my crew saw air bubbles in the fuel line and when we took out the entire fuel line back to the tank we found that there is a brass fixed filter in the line where it leaves the tank and it was partly blocked. The fuel pump had found it easier to suck air from a rubber joint than to suck the full amount of fuel. Cleaned the filter and replaced the rubber joint just in case. All works well now.

 

[HotProperty]

I would agree with mainsail1, I had the same problem as you were having and after taking it apart and not finding any issues noticed a pockets of air in the fuel line. After tightening the jubilee clips either side of the in line pump the issue went away and so did the air bubbles!!

 

[Murv]

Thanks all, much appreciated.
Sorry for the delay in replying, but I wanted to get some numbers.
It appears that it will fire with no issues at all, provided the engine is running.
Voltage without engine running, but with the charger on is around 13.8 volts, dropping to around 13.6 during the (failed) start up.
With the engine running, I get 14.1 volts, dropping to 13.8v when it (successfully) fires.
So, appears to be a voltage issue?
But, surely 13.6 volts should be enough? Especially as its enough to easily start the 6 litre engine... But not enough to heat the glow plug?

Could it be that the glow plug is a bit iffy, and that the extra 0.2 volts is just enough to allow it to fire?

I do strongly suspect (for other reasons) that the leisure bank is weak but the fairly hefty battery charger should compensate for that as it will run the leisure systems on its own. Plus, as I say, the batteries still have enough capacity to start the engine. (it's a slightly unusual battery layout, the start batteries start one engine only, the other bank starts the other engine and doubles as the leisure bank)

 

[pcatterall]

Well, power does seem to be the issue but 13.6 should be fine to start the heater. Are those volts measured at the heater or the battery?
Poor connections are sometimes 'stimulated' by getting more volts to the battery and thus to the device despite loss of power due to bad connections ( thin wire etc)

 

[PaulRainbow]

Thanks all, much appreciated.
Sorry for the delay in replying, but I wanted to get some numbers.
It appears that it will fire with no issues at all, provided the engine is running.
Voltage without engine running, but with the charger on is around 13.8 volts, dropping to around 13.6 during the (failed) start up.
With the engine running, I get 14.1 volts, dropping to 13.8v when it (successfully) fires.
So, appears to be a voltage issue?
But, surely 13.6 volts should be enough? Especially as its enough to easily start the 6 litre engine... But not enough to heat the glow plug?

Could it be that the glow plug is a bit iffy, and that the extra 0.2 volts is just enough to allow it to fire?

I do strongly suspect (for other reasons) that the leisure bank is weak but the fairly hefty battery charger should compensate for that as it will run the leisure systems on its own. Plus, as I say, the batteries still have enough capacity to start the engine. (it's a slightly unusual battery layout, the start batteries start one engine only, the other bank starts the other engine and doubles as the leisure bank)

Your battery configuration is not really that unusual. I'd check the glow pin, but i'd still double check all the connections.

 

[dom]

Result! But you really need to check the voltage, not only at the unit, but at the unit while the glow plug is activated. During this phase a material voltage drop will almost certainly be observable and you’re watching-out for a drop towards 11V and I think 10.5V will commence a shutdown.

If the voltage drop is excessive you can then check all of the terminations, inc. fuse, consider wire gauge in light of run/amps, and so on. FWIW I once called Eber in Germany and an engineer there said these heaters are usually installed in trucks where the wiring looms are typically much shorter than in many boats and consequently with undersized cable.

Anyhow, put the kettle on and we’ll bring the biccies

 

[Murv]

Thanks both, sorry (again) for the late reply! Oh, and kettle on :encouragement:

Currently fighting the fuel tank at the moment, hence lack of progress with the heater as I thought I'd have to remove it.
One other little twist to the tale...
If I fire the heater on the one set of batteries, the result is as my post above. White smoke and a shutdown.
However, if I press the crossover switch, and start it from the second set of batteries, it fires up with no problem.
So, weak leisure batteries then? Well, those weak batteries have enough power to fire the pre-heaters on the 6 litre engine, then spin it over effortlessly before starting it...
I do need to replace the batteries fairly soon, as they do die off faster than they should so I'll thoroughly investigate all the connections then.
In the meantime, I can at least run the thing using the crossover to start it and keep warm. Or, at least I could until I drained the fuel tank that it takes from...
Quite amazing just how cold that boat can get when there's only a lowly oil filled radiator trying to keep the frost at bay!