Easy way to scuttle a Lagoon Cat

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dralex

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We sneaked a look around a Lagoon ?40ish cat last week. It looks a really comfortable way to spend a week with friends, but what is the point of having hatches on the inboard side of the hulls in the heads, about 10cm above the waterline, along with big red written signs saying DO NOT OPEN WHILE SAILING. It looks like a picture window,, but do Lagoon install these as escape hatches, or are they really just there for a nice view while sitting on the throne, or as an easy way of sinking the boat?
 
It is the \"Why Reef\" Option.

A monohull with too much sail up, will behave badly and turn into wind. At this point you should put in a reef.

A catamaran will start to dig in the leeward bow. Now while your monohull will heel dramatically and then turn into wind when totally overpowered ( too much sail for the wind ) the catamaran will dig in the lee ward bow and flip over.

Monohull sloops have single line reefing - But catamarans have escape hatches.

Unfortunately a catamaran, sailed with too much sail, will become totally stable with the mast pointing down.

Most users do not need the escape hatches since they reef in time. But I have known of catamaran skippers who have not reduced sail as the conditions demand.
 
They are a legal requirement meant to provide an escape route in case of an inversion.
AFAIR, they were first introduced by France following cases where people were trapped inside, sometimes with fatal consequences.
The EU adopted similar requirements (quite rightly this time)
They are also required by ISAF regulations for Category 2 Offshore Racing (Multi's).
I agree that they are not the most aesthetically appealing feature in a cat but the safety factor comes first.
If someone has any doubts I suggest checking how long they can bear to stay under an overturned dinghy. Imagine the effect of being caught under, following an inversion, in rough seas.
Fair Winds!

PS. I hope I don't sound pontificating.
 
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If someone has any doubts I suggest checking how long they can bear to stay under an overturned dinghy. Imagine the effect of being caught under, following an inversion, in rough seas.


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Ask tony bullimore - he seemed to manage ok.
 
Re: It is the \"Why Reef\" Option.

Woodentop,

I see that you are well named and have obviously never sailed in a cruising cat. If you knew the history of catamarans sufficiently to be able to make comments such as this, you would know that this reputation was earnt by ONE class of catamaran designed by a dinghy sailor who knew nothing about the differences between monohulls and cats.

Yes there is a danger on a cat of sailing too quickly downwind and pitchpoling. The same danger exists for monohulls, and a lot of modern monohulls will also stay upside down.

At least a cat doesnt invert when its keel falls off!
 
hmm 10 cm above the waterline? Is it a Sea-Bidet? I imagine it would be very useful after a particularly hot curry. These Cat makers think of everything!!
 
Can you recognise people from their bum cheeks?
How embarrasing to slap who you thought was Liz Hurley on the bum to find out it was Princess Michael of Kent.
 
There are a couple of great advantages to the waterline hatches - firstly you get a surreal and sometimes beautiful view of the sea bottom (and the cockpit floor above you) when you're anchored in clear water, AND...they're the perfect height to pee out of when you wake up pissed and can't be bothered leaving your cabin.

The bl**dy irritating downside is that they leak a bit when you are sailing above about 6 knots which is most of the time in a Lagoon, so I've resorted to mastic and tape on a long trip.

Oh, and given the huge closed foward compartments ( from memory, about 7 feet deep, 5 at the widest, and about 12 feet long) there is more than enough bouyancy to avoid pitchpoling through almost any wave action I can imagine. It would also be hard to send it over by not reefing -as there's no backstay then the mast would come down long before you'd have enough pressure to get a heavy 22ft wide boat on its side or somersaulted over its bow.

I just know I'm now about to get a hundred links to stories about Lagoons capsizing.
 
We have a rule that the escape hatches must be kept closed but not locked at sea. That is so you can get back inside if you are outside when it goes over. Imagine wanting to get back inside a sinking monohull /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

The hatches are a convenient way of loading stores direct from dinghy to galley. The colour of the sea seen through the hatches without reflections from the sky is amazing. You'd never believe blue could be so intense!
 
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"Ask tony bullimore - he seemed to manage ok."
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I did, actually, when he came for the Rolex Middle Sea Race in 2003.
Even if you believe only half of what he says, you'll soon realise that he wouldn't do it out of choice. Sorry, if that sounds like an understatement.
Even if my present boat is a mono, I have always loved multi's - I used to sail, not race, the wooden plug that was used for the mould of the first Prout Snowgoose, called Ratanga, back in the late 60's, early 70's. IMO anyone who races a cat would be out of his senses to disregard the importance of these hatches. Even if they weren't a requirement.
Cruising is a different story altogether. Where you sail has a lot of bearing, e.g. down here you get short seas that are relatively steep. In those conditions, as I am sure you can teach me, it becomes all too easy for a cat to pitchpole. It's not necessarily the sails that do it; you slide down a wave front too rapidly and the tons of water behind you do their very best to trip you up into the wave in front. It is said that if you can sail the Med in winter you can sail most anywhere!
Tony's boat for 2003 (can't recall the name) had almost twice as much freeboard at the stems than it had amidships. Ugly beast! Had he competed in 2004 he'd have had a rough time. Alfa Romeo lost a man overboard - safely picked up 20 minutes later - when they were caught with their Code 0 up and knocked flat by a 55 knot gust coming suddenly out of F5 - F6 with following seas. Crazy sail plan? Not for them, because they do offshore racing for a living. I would say that we were fortunate that the competing cats were nowhere near! Personal opinion, of course.

Fair Winds!
 
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IMO anyone who races a cat would be out of his senses to disregard the importance of these hatches.

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You wont find any disagreement on that.

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down here you get short seas that are relatively steep. In those conditions, it becomes all too easy for a cat to pitchpole. It's not necessarily the sails that do it; you slide down a wave front too rapidly and the tons of water behind you do their very best to trip you up into the wave in front

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Pitchpoling is the danger, in those conditions it is essential that a cat have some means of slowing down, whether it be warps, tyres, drogue or whatever. As I am sure you are aware, the design concept for the snowgoose had narrow sections at the stern to try to assist with this problem.
 
Quote:

"As I am sure you are aware, the design concept for the snowgoose had narrow sections at the stern to try to assist with this problem. "

Unquote


Design concepts have come a long way since then!
Can you imagine, today, a multihull with a beam of 17 feet on an LOA of 36 feet? (something around those figures if memory chips are O.K.) Certainly not for today's kind of racing.

Minimal displacement was also not fully appreciated at the time, with some catastrophic results that got very bad exploitation from the press, ever in pursuit of sale-enhancing sensationalism. Remember the tri Cavalier in Australia? Took off with "..over £600 worth of cine equipment on board" - real money then - and slammed down on the mast, 180 degrees later. Some wit had come up with a truism that, "If you build boats that look like aeroplanes, don't be surprised when they take off!"
As usual, it all reduces to "it's not the ships, it's the men who sail in them". Some few years back a little Prout on passage from here towards Egypt was pitchpoled. How can anyone leave a cat, in following seas, in a F6-F7, on an autopilot ?!?. I don't know about you but I certainly wouldn't.

Have a good weekend and may you always have sufficient of the 3 W's! Even 4 if you're in the mood!

Fair Winds!
 
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How can anyone leave a cat, in following seas, in a F6-F7, on an autopilot ?!?</

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The development of autopilots with accelerometers has actually made it safer for the average joe to allow the machine to steer (provided you have one with accelerometers) than for a human. IIRC trials with the open 60s and large multihulls have shown that this new system is 3% more efficient than some of the best helms available. It was certainly good enough for Dame Ellon to allow the boat to surf down waves in the southern ocean at up to 36 knots in considerably more than a F6/7
 
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