Eastern Cruiser Racing Seminar

[apward]

To complement the work currently being done by the RORC Rating Office and the RYA in developing a strategy to increase participation in cruiser racing nationally, EAORA are organising the 2013 Eastern Cruiser Racing Seminar.

The seminar brings together club officials, regatta organisers and of course sailors from across the region stretching from North Kent to Lowestoft providing an opportunity to network, share success stories and influence the future planning of cruiser racing on the East coast.

You can read more about the seminar at www.eaora.org.uk and book your place.

If you can't attend and you're a racer, EAORA would still like to hear from you about how you'd like to see racing develop.

 

[BlueSkyNick]

To complement the work currently being done by the RORC Rating Office and the RYA in developing a strategy to increase participation in cruiser racing nationally.

Where are you reading about what is being done ?

I have been thinking a similar seminar, on 3 different evenings and discussed it with the RORC office some weeks ago.

I was not aware there is anything published. I would love to attend your seminar, but its a bit too far to travel

 

[apward]

Hey Nick. I'd recommend you speak with Mike Urwin at the RORC rating Office and Bas Edmonds at the RYA. They are looking for venues around the country to host events where they can disseminate the info.

 

[BlueSkyNick]

Hey Nick. I'd recommend you speak with Mike Urwin at the RORC rating Office and Bas Edmonds at the RYA. They are looking for venues around the country to host events where they can disseminate the info.

Ive already had a discussion with Mike, which is why I was interested to find out if there is anything documented yet. I will pick it up again after Christmas.

 

[Tomahawk]

I became an ex racer because of the costs of keeping a boat in race condition..

There is no point in joining EAORA JOG or Sail East circuit unless your boat is very well appointed for racing.

These days you need high tech sails replaced every other year to keep in with a chance for simple club racing round the same cans each weekend.. There is simply no fun in taking part in a race to simply come last all the time with no chance of improving without spending huge amounts of money. There is also the cost of a racing handicap which runs out to hundreds of pounds a year.

Looking at the marina where we are at the moment... about five boats go racing of a weekend... the oth 600 are cruising only boats..

Perhaps if the RYA concentrated on effective communication with boat owners about things which affect the majority of boat owners. .... such as the potential MCZ's, the stupid no alcohol legislation, allowing an unelected public employee to make new criminal offences of their own initiative, arguing against conservation measures that limit the provision of boating facilities.... they would get more resoect crom boat owners...



...

 

[BlueSkyNick]

I agree with what you are saying about the need to spend excessive money on racing if you have an IRC rating, but there is still fun to be had at less cost in Club Handicap classes. The big problem there is the lack of a consistent scheme. Portsmouth Yardstick is more for dinghies than keelboats, and localised schemes are created. For example, in Poole there is now a Velocity Prediction Rating System at http://vprs.org/ run by a volunteer.

This is why somebody needs to come up with a more cost effective system for cruiser racers, and the RYA should be doing it. They represent a wide range of people from kids in Oppy's to high performance keelboats, so to say they should concentrate on on effective communication with boat owners about things which affect the majority of boat owners as if they are purely cruisers is somewhat narrow minded and selfish in my view.

And I say that more as a cruising than a racing person myself.

 

[tidclacy]

Ani DiFranco

Not many people appreciate her welcome to the club.

 

[Daydream believer]

Perhaps if the RYA concentrated on effective communication with boat owners about things which affect the majority of boat owners. .... such as the potential MCZ's, the stupid no alcohol legislation, allowing an unelected public employee to make new criminal offences of their own initiative, arguing against conservation measures that limit the provision of boating facilities.... they would get more resoect crom boat owners...
...

Whilst i do not agree with the essence of the first part of your item i for one do agree with this comment wholeheartedly
The establishment of more harbour authorities being one for a start

 

[Tomahawk]

Whilst i do not agree with the essence of the first part of your item i for one do agree with this comment wholeheartedly
The establishment of more harbour authorities being one for a start

Thank you for taking the time to read my post.. you raise two important issues.

I am unsure how you can disagree with me that I stopped racing my own yacht on account of the cost.. We needed new sails to remain competitive against people who had new sails. Our results were going down the list each year, whilst people with new sails were going faster than us.. I simply coundn't afford the constant new sails,,,, plus the rest of the collateral damage we did. WhenI was rqcing with someone else on the Crouch, we had new canvas every season... and we stayed at the top of the fleet, both locally and RORC.

Separetely, have you followed the link on the thread RYA seeks your views..? I feel it is worthwile.

 

[Daydream believer]

I am unsure how you can disagree with me that I stopped racing my own yacht on account of cost

Sorry if i gave the wrong impression about your wish not to spend lots of money
I was really referring to the inference that one needs to keep on spending every year.
Sailing can expensive if you want to keep up to scratch even if you just want to cruise. Certainly you need a good suit of sails etc but then some may want that for cruising anyway. a good boat will always do well if it is set up correctly & that does not cost anything. The vital thing is that it is sailed to its absolute maximum with all the "optimums" included
A well sailed old'un can beat a poorly sailed new'un

 

[Tomahawk]

I was really referring to the inference that one needs to keep on spending every year.
Sailing can expensive if you want to keep up to scratch even if you just want to cruise. ....

You have a fair point except that.. all else being equal in terms of crew, tactics, helming, tuning etc.. the boat with the newest sails will be just that little bit faster...

BTW who do you race with? Have we crossed tacks?

 

[apward]

You have a fair point except that.. all else being equal in terms of ....

I think that's the point of 'handicap racing' isn't it, NO things are equal in cruiser racing.

Given my discussions with both the RYA and the RORC rating office they recognize that many cruisers might not race because they think they can't compete unless they have new sails, or get their boat weighed, e.t.c., e.t.c.

So jointly they have been working on a revised handicap system that can provide for competitive racing at both club and regional level and encourage progression for those that want to move between the levels. i.e. Local club to IRC racing, or infact move between rivers taking a base handicap number with them that will be accepted.

They clearly agree with you, that the current system of handicapping needs revising, the RYA PY doesn't work for cruisers, and the IRC doesn't satisfy some owners, surely we should acknowledge that they have listened to comments such as yours (I cant afford to compete) and in return listen to the plans!

 

[Tomahawk]

It's good to talk

That is very good news to hear...

I do feel I think it is a very difficult situation.. I had a Dehler 36, derived from a Van De Stadt racing design. In top condition with the racing sails Etc it would be in class 1 and capable of being competitive. However as a cruiser and loaded up with junk.. it wasn't able to be competitive.

However it was still much faster over the water than a GK24 or an Impala in race tune.. So it would not be fair for me to be in Class 2 but I woudn't have a chance in Class 1 unless I went back to full racing mode with minimal weight qnd newer sails..

So there is no point in raciing to come last in Class 1 but I was not in
calss 2 shere people were putting a lot of effort into race preparation..

Equally, why should a cruiser who races the odd weekend have a handicap that allowes him to compete on an equal footing with someone who puts all the effort into race tuining such as the two Class 1 boats that are dry sailing nearby?

I suppose that something like the ISC handicap which allocates a different rating for the same design of boat as IRC on the basis of not being race prepared validated Etc would help non racers come out for a decent jolly and simply enjoy being on the water...

hope that helps

 

[apward]

With over 70 delegates registered for this weekends seminar, representing 20 clubs currently active in cruiser racing between Dover and Lowestoft, East Coast Racing is on the up.

Registrations are now closed. But we'll be providing a report on the web next week on www.eaora.org.uk for those unable to attend but interested in the developments.

 

[FullCircle]

Also as an ex racer, I can tell you that when there was no penalty for Exotic sails over Dacron, they drove the dagger into their own heart.
Not to mention that certain boats always seemed to evade being weighed and all the other nonsense that goes on.
I liked going 'racing' in Class 6 at Burnham and Ramsgate, but I do not have a racing boat, and when they allow pothunters with obvious racing craft then that is another discouragement. Quite how a Centaur handicapped in class 6 with family and kit onboard copes with a 3 handed Benny 36.7 with Carbon sails I am not sure. Enough to put me off, haven't been back since 2008.

All the youngsters have alos been put off because of the general increase in boat size. A Limbo, Eygthene, Evo 26, even (gulp) Anderson 22s are left to cross the line last and get to the bar after the food is finished, because pillock race officers take the big boats way out and back.
Oh well. And relax.

 

[Daydream believer]

The Blackwater Joint Racing Committee -BJRC- have a good system. You start of with a good handicap to give you a measure of success. If you win or do well your rating is penalised 5% or similar for subsequent races
If you are within a certain " average" i seem to recall that they accept you are sailing well & knock a bit off the rating. Not sure quite how it works but the out & out racer gets penalised to help the more cruiser biased boats. One still has to sail well though, which is what it is all about
People with old cruisers who do not do well in other races should be ready to accept that it may be a lot to do with their sailing & boat "set up"you only have to look at their starting technique or sail handling etc to see that they will never win a race. So there are 2 sides to every arguement

 

[CPD]

Also as an ex racer, I can tell you that when there was no penalty for Exotic sails over Dacron, they drove the dagger into their own heart.
Not to mention that certain boats always seemed to evade being weighed and all the other nonsense that goes on.
I liked going 'racing' in Class 6 at Burnham and Ramsgate, but I do not have a racing boat, and when they allow pothunters with obvious racing craft then that is another discouragement. Quite how a Centaur handicapped in class 6 with family and kit onboard copes with a 3 handed Benny 36.7 with Carbon sails I am not sure. Enough to put me off, haven't been back since 2008.

All the youngsters have alos been put off because of the general increase in boat size. A Limbo, Eygthene, Evo 26, even (gulp) Anderson 22s are left to cross the line last and get to the bar after the food is finished, because pillock race officers take the big boats way out and back.
Oh well. And relax.

Now that made me smile. Was sorting through the wardrobe t'other day and came across the "Full Circle Burnham Week 2008" T-shirt. Grand days .....

 

[FullCircle]

People with old cruisers who do not do well in other races should be ready to accept that it may be a lot to do with their sailing & boat "set up"you only have to look at their starting technique or sail handling etc to see that they will never win a race. So there are 2 sides to every arguement

3 then.
I have a new boat with new sails, and I know how to use them.

 

[Lucky Duck]

I think there is a lot of sense in requiring those boats with valid IRC certificates to enter the relevant IRC class rather than being able to compete in races intended for less seasoned boats and crews.