Eastern Adriatic - Croatia and more

[BrianH]

There is a maximum number of crew places calculated when the vignette is issued (the crew list is on the back of the Vignette). It is calculated at 2.5 times the number of berths on the boat. Each time new crew arrives you have to visit the Harbour Master (with Passports) to have them entered and individually stamped. Harbour Masters are very reluctant to allow this procedure in advance of arrival. You cannot start a new list - it is a maximum for the period of the Vignette.
Note - you have ALSO to register Passports with the "Police" - though many Marinas can access the data base for Passport Registration (this may change after 1st July EU entry)

I think you keep your boat in Croatia while I enter from elsewhere, as I interpret the questioner will be doing - there may be differences. My crew list has always been a separate list made out at the police office and quite separate from the cruising permit document obtained in the Harbour office. The vignette is just that, an adhesive patch with date punches to be conspicuously displayed on the exterior of the boat for police checks.

This page quotes the official requirements for visiting yachts that has no restriction on the number of crew changes. That may well be very different for yachts based in Croatia due to local paranoia of illegal chartering.

There are no restrictions as to the number of changes of persons from the list.

"Harbour Masters are very reluctant to allow this procedure in advance of arrival. You cannot start a new list - it is a maximum for the period of the Vignette."
Not true. The harbourmaster in Umag is not known for being cooperative (in fact, he is a tedious stickler for regulations) but he allowed me in July of this year to announce my crew that joined me later. As I commented, there is a subsidiary list for exactly this purpose and the only requirement that the police be visited when clearing that crew member out and is not necessary when joining ship - if already declared on the subsidiary crew list. Otherwise, normal police office attendance is required to add to the crew list at a port of entry as when declaring in.

The crew list is valid for the duration of the visit - maximum three months. Return can be then made and a new crew list started. The cruising permit (vignette) is valid for 12 months.

All this should change in July 2013 when Croatia accedes to the EU.

 

[jimbaerselman]

I & SWMBO are planning to cruise around the Adriatic during April/May/June 2013. We hope to have various friends and family join us for periods varying from day sailing to a week.

Could someone explain in more detail about the Croatian vignettes (?spelling). Can one add names to the paper once it has been stamped? How many places are there for crew names? If one filled up the spaces, can one start again with a new paper? Who stamps the paper and what does it cost?

TudorSailor

There's a full explanation of the crew list rules on http://jimbsail.info/croatia . Note that Croatia joins the EU on 1 July next year, but stays out of Schengen until 2015 - or that's the plan.

 

[tudorsailor]

Marinas in Venice

Have now looked at crew change in Venice. On NoonSite there is an impressive list of marinas.

Can those who have been to Venice make recommendations? BTW my draft is 2.1m so I guess that not all marinas will be usable.

Second question relates to pilot guides. Should I get 777 anchorages in addition to the Adriatic Pliot, or does the pilot have the same information?

Third question... Can one still get duty free fuel near Trieste as suggested on an older thread. These pages seem rather ancient here and here

Thanks

TudorSailor

 

[jaba]

777 is useful for a quick overview, is updated every year. I'd say yes.

as for the questions about Venice, here are some infos. In all these places 2.1 m draft should be ok

1) From San Giorgio's Compagnia della Vela berths you enjoy the most spectacular view of Venice, right in front of St. Mark's square. Disadvantages: there is just a bar there and nothing else there (shops, etc), even if you are connected by public boat every 10 minutes or so with St Mark's (less frequently at night, though). These are their various contacts. If they don't answer by email you may try to reach them by phone. I would try "Darsene" (ie "Marina") phone number first. I don't know if they accept reservations, keep in mind that berths are usually taken by members and in springtime it might be a bit difficult to find a place. Possibly easier in summer.

COMPAGNIA DELLA VELA – A.s.d.

Sede Sociale: San Marco, Giardinetti n. 2 – Venezia 30124

Sede Operativa: Centro Sportivo di Eccellenza, Isola di San Giorgio Maggiore n. 5 – Venezia 30124

Contatti:
Sede Sociale: 041 5222593
Segreteria: 041 5200884 (tel e fax)
Segreteria Contabile: 041 2412419 (tel e fax)
Darsene: 041 5210723 339 4787488
E-mail: segreteria@compvela.com

2) Another possibility is Diporto Velico, near the Arsenale (actually, Sant'Elena). Another sailing club, same problem with berths but worth a try: they recently added some pontoons (or so I heard). In comparison with San Giorgio, no view... but you are in a very authentic part of Venice and still only 15 minutes on foot from St Marks. Tel 041 5231927 www.dvv.it (the site isn't great)


3) Third possibility. L'Altravenezia. No saling club, but a yard where Venetians keep their small motorboats and gondolas... They do have some berths for sailing boats, though, and it's on the South side of Giudecca Island, in the middle of one of the most fascinating and lively parts of town. Great view on the lagoon. Shops nearby. There you can book & be reasonably sure to find a place. Downside: no toilets (but water and electricity) it used to be fairly expensive for short stays.

Isola Della Giudecca, 211
30133 VENEZIA (VE)
tel.:

0415205619

4) Ventodivenezia. This is a proper marina, on an island in front of Diporto Velico. I keep it last as the island is (literally) quite isolated, and linked only on request by public boats (they might stop going at a certain hour at night but you should inquire as there is probably some kind of ferry service organized by the Marina itself). Usually good feedback.
http://www.ventodivenezia.it/

 

[BrianH]

Have now looked at crew change in Venice. On NoonSite there is an impressive list of marinas.
Can those who have been to Venice make recommendations? BTW my draft is 2.1m so I guess that not all marinas will be usable.
Second question relates to pilot guides. Should I get 777 anchorages in addition to the Adriatic Pliot, or does the pilot have the same information?
Third question... Can one still get duty free fuel near Trieste as suggested on an older thread. These pages seem rather ancient here and here

San Giorgio is indeed spectacular but I found it too uncomfortable - the inner wall was constructed of pilings that allowed a surge through - and with all the water traffic there is a lot.

I go often to Venice and now always go to Sant'Elena, which, although mainly a club with moorings for members only, always seems to have a spare mooring from someone being away, especially in the season. I have never failed to get a place there. I find it perfect, an attractive, quiet backwater of the city with a good, relatively inexpensive restaurant and a small market for provisions just outside the gate, while being a short walk from the centre.

Fully agree with the 777 pilot.

 

[tudorsailor]

Blog with lots of info

In doing further research on the Adriatic, I have found this blog from Otium. It is one of the most comprehensive that I have come across and packed with useful information about the whole Adriatic. Well worth printing out without photos for on board reference.

TudorSailor

 

[jimbaerselman]

as for the questions about Venice, here are some infos. In all these places 2.1 m draft should be ok <big snip!>

Jaba,

That was a great post!

 

[jaba]

thks, Jim

 

[Caladh]

I'm surprised to see this trail still going. It goes off course for a bit but thanks again for the useful pointers and Oitium's blog appears to have good information. Keep it coming !

 

[tudorsailor]

Venice tides

Since Venice seems to have strong currents where is the best source of info on tide height, times and Spring/Neeps, and currents

I have found this website so far.

Thanks



TudorSailor

 

[BrianH]

Since Venice seems to have strong currents where is the best source of info on tide height, times and Spring/Neeps, and currents

I have found this website so far.

I use OpenCPN on a netbook as backup to my Garmin plotter and which contains tidal data if enabled and if the world-wide data file is loaded - it is not included in the program distribution files. It shows current tidal height for the major local ports (including Venice) and a right click brings up the daily graph.

Tides can create strong currents within the lagoon despite the typical variation being less than a metre (discounting Springs and southerly gales). This is due to a lot of water being shifted in and out through only three major entrances.

As an aside, after visiting Venice, it is an attractive trip to traverse the lagoon channel from the Lido to Chioggia to exit there - passing by the fishing communities that cling to the few metres of sand that forms the lagoon periphery. Even better to spend a night in one of the excellent marinas in Chioggia itself.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I'm surprised to see this trail still going. It goes off course for a bit but thanks again for the useful pointers and Oitium's blog appears to have good information. Keep it coming !

Yup, this thread has inspired me to cruise these areas before I head south to Croatia from my winter base in Monfalcone. Yes keep all info coming please!

 

[tudorsailor]

I use OpenCPN on a netbook as backup to my Garmin plotter and which contains tidal data if enabled and if the world-wide data file is loaded - it is not included in the program distribution files. It shows current tidal height for the major local ports (including Venice) and a right click brings up the daily graph.

Tides can create strong currents within the lagoon despite the typical variation being less than a metre (discounting Springs and southerly gales). This is due to a lot of water being shifted in and out through only three major entrances.

I have Navionics on my phone and have found that this includes tidal heights. I do have OpenCPN on the laptop. Where can I get tidal data file?

I guess what I am really interested in is the current direction and strength within the lagoon. Are there charts with tidal streams?

Thanks

TS

 

[sigmasailor]

Croatia sailing bubble to blow?

We chartered in Croatia last October and were amazed by the rates the Croatians charge you for anchoring and marinas. I read it's becoming more expensive; at some point the bubble will blow.

Cost: We had a 32 ft mono hull and were charged between 40 and 55 euro's per night. OK; electricity and water included but still double the price from what we would pay in the Netherlands. Free anchoring was hardly possible. On top of the charter fee we paid some 600 euro's for marinas in two weeks.

Food: not so good and boring (steak, pizza en fish). After two weeks some change would be welcome. Absolutely sh@t if you're a vegetarian (pasta with tomato sauce and that's it).

Friendliness: We met some really nice and helpful Croatians; a lot were not so nice (marina staff) and didn't seem to care about anything.

Wind: Too much or none.

Area; nice, some 1200 islands of which 1100 seem to be similar (Vis was great; Trogir completely spoiled for tourism).

Will we go back?: No, there are cheaper and equally nice area's to sail.

Weather: was absolutely perfect (but for the wind).

Conclusion: 6.

Eric.

 

[BrianH]

I have Navionics on my phone and have found that this includes tidal heights. I do have OpenCPN on the laptop. Where can I get tidal data file?

Here

I guess what I am really interested in is the current direction and strength within the lagoon. Are there charts with tidal streams?

Not to my knowledge. The only chart tidal streams shown in all paper and electronic charts of the Adriatic that I have seen are in the open sea, not in the lagoons. And naturally, they are all relatively so weak as to be ignored.

I even have an old set of lagoon charts covering the entire Italian NE but none show channel currents.

In all practicable terms they are not necessary. So long as you know the tidal states, height/depth, flood/ebb and times of, it is possible to navigate the channels, where the flow usually follows. It can become tricky where cross-flow occurs, you just have to keep a very sharp observation of your course and track and steer accordingly.

The Venice Lagoon channels are well marked and deep, they are really no problem.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Cost: We had a 32 ft mono hull and were charged between 40 and 55 euro's per night. OK; electricity and water included but still double the price from what we would pay in the Netherlands. Free anchoring was hardly possible. On top of the charter fee we paid some 600 euro's for marinas in two weeks.

Yup, you are partly correct. Overnight mooring charges are expensive in Croatia but no more expensive than other Med boating hotspots. On the other hand, annual mooring charges are very reasonable compared to the UK and the W Med. I have to take issue regarding your comment on free anchoring. We have been in Croatia 3 seasons and I don't remember being charged to anchor anywhere except national parks and those can be avoided

Food: not so good and boring (steak, pizza en fish). After two weeks some change would be welcome. Absolutely sh@t if you're a vegetarian (pasta with tomato sauce and that's it).

Again partially correct but there are some excellent restaurants if you know where they are. Some kind forumites have recommended eateries to us and now we know where to go, we eat generally well. Yup, I suspect there isn't a word in the Croatian language for 'vegetarian'

Friendliness: We met some really nice and helpful Croatians; a lot were not so nice (marina staff) and didn't seem to care about anything.

Once again partially correct. Remember that these people lived in a communist state until 25yrs ago and then experienced a brutal civil war. It's no surprise that some seem a bit guarded and unhelpful but I think that is changing as the concept of customer service as we know it becomes more ingrained

Wind: Too much or none.

Yup, weeks of perfect motorboating weather punctuated with ferocious bora winds. Watch the forecast!

Area; nice, some 1200 islands of which 1100 seem to be similar (Vis was great; Trogir completely spoiled for tourism).

You cannot judge the area on 1 charter and visiting 2 places but I agree Trogir is too touristy. There are many uncrowded and delightful islands which are not busy even in August

Will we go back?: No, there are cheaper and equally nice area's to sail.

That would be a shame because you don't know what you are missing

 

[tudorsailor]

Can I have a copy of your recommended restaurant list??

Tudorsailor

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Can I have a copy of your recommended restaurant list??

Tudorsailor

I don't have a list per se and I have left the local restaurant guides I have on my boat. Also I don't know the northern islands in the Dalmatian chain at all but here are a few of our favourites going from north to south

Pag - http://www.boskinac.com
Murter - http://www.restoran-fabro.hr
Zut - http://www.zut.hr/eng/restaurant/index.asp
Skradin - http://www.restaurant-skala-skradin.com
Rogoznica - http://www.restoran-antonijo.hr/rogoznica-en17.htm
Solta - http://www.martinis-marchi.com/en/home.html
Vis - http://www.gastronaut.hr/restoran.asp?id=3068
Vis - Restoran Darko, Zena Glava (no website)
Hvar - http://hvar-gariful.hr
Palmizana - http://www.zori.hr
Zdrilca - http://www.zdrilca.com
Mjlet (Polace) - http://bourbon-mljet.com
Korcula Town - http://restaurantfilippi.com
Korcula (Zmovo) - Konoba Belin (no website)
Lastovo (Zaplopatika) - Triton (no website)
Mali Ston - http://www.ostrea.hr
Peljesac - Nico's (first bay on port side on way up to Ston)
Dubrovnik - http://www.nautikarestaurant.com/?nautika=dubrovnik&dubrovnik=restaurant - special occasions only!
Dubrovnik - Konoba Posat (no website) - just outside west entrance to old town

Thats about as many as I can recall today. Be aware that some of these restaurants are not exactly cheap, although still reasonable by UK standards, and you really need to pay more than €20/bottle for good wine. Many shoreside restaurants have their own moorings which are usually free if you eat at the restaurant which is a good way to save money if you were planning to berth in a marina anyway. Croatian cuisine is not sophisticated by N European standards, even in good restaurants. The difference is the quality of the ingredients and the way they are cooked. Grilled meat is often well cooked so if you like it rare, make sure you ask the waiter specifically. Fish is obviously widely available and in the better restaurants, you can choose your own from a display. Lobster is good but pricey only don't expect it to be as large as a cold water one

If you are in Dubrovnik, search out this bar which is in a fab setting http://www.cafebuza.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5&Itemid=3. Similarly, if you are in Korcula Town, this is a great place for a drink http://www.korculainfo.com/gallery/restaurants/cafe-bar-massimo1/

 

[tudorsailor]

Wow! Many thanks for taking the effort to list + link all these restaurants.

Tudorsailor

 

[sigmasailor]

You cannot judge the area on 1 charter and visiting 2 places but I agree Trogir is too touristy. There are many uncrowded and delightful islands which are not busy even in August


That would be a shame because you don't know what you are missing

We visited some 12 islands and places around Kremik. We mostly enjoyed Vis. I know very well what I will be missing: an unhappy vegetarian wife...

We are in the process of arranging a charter in Turkey for this year; nothing but good stories sofar: good restaurants; they have a word for vegetarians; lots of secluded (free) bays, friendly people, etc. There is so much still to be explored; why go back to a place where there was 'lots of room for improvement'?