Easiest handling downwind/light airs sail?

Adrian

Adrian

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 Jun 2001
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841
Location
Me Midlands, Boat Port Grimaud SOF
www.kydproducts.co.uk
Having been in the SOF for a couple of seasons I realise we need a downwind/light air sail, there seems to be so many types on the market (Spinnaker, Cruising Chute, Gennaker) I don't know where to start. I don't really want pole or bowsprit and as little extra string as possible so Whats the simplest option?
Boat is 9.4m Hanse 312.
 
I think that there is no single answer because it depends whether your boat can take advantage of the opportunity of tacking downwind or whether it is happier sailing directly. 'Cruising chute'-type sails generally have a narrower angle of usefulness than a spinnaker but are easier for spinophobes. I had a spinnaker on different boats for 25 years, and never experienced a failed set or drop in those years of cruising and racing, so, with my current boat, I would prefer a spinnaker. The fractional rig means that the sail is not over-large, but in fact I have never got round to it and put up with a poled jib or motor.

Newer boats which will semi-surf will gain from the tacking option, but sailing directly is better for me. Using a pole is much easier if the pole is stowed on a mast track.
 
A general purpose cruising chute on a furler is the most common choice. This gives you a range of roughly 70-160 degrees and is useful (depending on size) up to 15 knots of wind. I have just bought one for a slightly bigger Bavaria. Like your boat, mine is fractional rig with a non overlapping jib so loses out once the wind is aft of the beam, particularly in light airs and this is what a cruising chute is intended to address, although it is not intended for direct downwind, but can be used goosewinged with the main.

You do not need a pole, but you may need a bowsprit depending on the arrangement on the stem head as the tack has to be a minimum of 30cm and ideally more to keep the furler drum and furled sail clear of the jib. A bowsprit has the added advantage of getting the sail forward into clearer air. Many newer boats have a bow roller fitting that extends well forward so the anchor clears the stem and the tack can be attached to a hole drilled through one of the cheeks or a loop welded on.

The sail, furler and blocks, fairleads etc will cost in the region of £3-3500. Mine was made by Kemps and you will find useful information about such sails on their websites and indeed on sites of most of the popular sailmakers such as Crusader, Sanders, Elvestrom and many others.
 
Your simplest (and cheapest) option is probably a cruising chute.
Tack it down to the anchor roller, the refinement of a long line back to the cockpit would allow you to easily adjust the luff tension. The two sheets can be led to a turning block aft and thence to the genoa winches, if you have no other. This assumes you have a spare halyard, which should have a swivel.

Furl your genoa, hoist the chute, out of it's bag, behind the main and off you jolly well go. As the others have said, you won't want to go directly down wind with this set up but long tacks work very well for cruising.
 
Probably not the simplest and cheapest option, but we have a self tacking jib and aft of that a removable over fore stay, upon which we can set a variety of sails, most commonly a huge lightweight overlapping genoa. With the aid of a pole, this can be used over a very wide range of wind angles. It's hank on and fairly easy to drop in a hurry.
 
Definitely NOT the cheapest but look into the Parasail/parasailor. It's got a snuffer. Mine uses a device called a "tacker" which clips around the furled genoa. I can set and handle it singlehanded with the help of "George", my original Autohelm 2000 (so much more dependable than the Raymarine replacement). It lifts and steadies the bow which reduces any tendency to roll downwind. More fun per £ than my 1GM10 which is the most expensive thing I ever bought for the boat, the Parasail runs it a close second.
 
If you want to keep costs down once you have bought a second hand cruising chute you might find a second hand one with a snuffer or buy snuffer new to fit which would save on the costs of the separate furler which are quite pricy. A number of boats now seem to carry short Bowsprit poles by Selden (notwithstanding your natural ad version might be worth a look )to move the foot forward which might be a stage 2 investment after the chute snuffer and some sheets and a tack line. We have a self tacking jib plus a large genoa on separate furler which works well for cruising as you can control both from cockpit unlike hauling the snuffer up etc from foredeck but I suspect retrofitting a new furler on the Hanse is not an option . There used to be a place in emsworth that sold second hand sails which might be place to start if it still exists to get something to play around with to see what works for you before laying out for more but no doubt a few calls will find source of such sails . If you want to pole out the sail I have read of second hand windsurfer masts being adapted to fit this role .
 
Thanks all, forgot to mention we've got a self tacking gib which down wind is pretty useless.

Thinking about it I'm not sure why i don't want a pole , i suppose 'cos I've never used a spin it looks complicated, the only time i seem to notice them is when someones on the fore deck trying to unwrap it!

I'll have a closer look at the cruising chute/Parasail/parasailor options
Cheers
 
SeaTeach have stopped selling second hand sails. They may still have some as they were running down stock a couple of years ago. However, they also do a good range of "budget" sails. My new roller reefing genoa came in about £100 under the next best price. I'm not a racer so top of the range materials and state of the art laser cutting aren't that important to me. It sets well, but then anything would after my battered old Genoa. They are also the agent for Parasails.
 
Adrian said:
Thanks all, forgot to mention we've got a self tacking gib which down wind is pretty useless.

Thinking about it I'm not sure why i don't want a pole , i suppose 'cos I've never used a spin it looks complicated, the only time i seem to notice them is when someones on the fore deck trying to unwrap it!

I'll have a closer look at the cruising chute/Parasail/parasailor options
Cheers
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A cruising chute was on the options list when the boat was new as was a large genoa. The combination of self tacking jib and a cruising chute is common. The question is really (if you go down that route) about 2 things. The first is the range the sail will cover and second the method of handling. You can get different cuts of sail, some of which will go deeper downwind than others. If you have free flying sail with an adjustable tack line you can have any cuts of the range and to ease raising and dropping you can have a snuffer. You will find strong views about snuffers but they are a relatively cheap way of controlling the drop in particular. If you want to go the much more expensive route of a furler then the cuts that allow deeper angles don't work, but the trade off is that flying and retrieving the sail from the cockpit is so much easier. It also means that you can set the sail up before you leave if you think you will get the conditions to use it - and where you are would guess that is almost every time you go out!

Well worth talking to 2 or 3 sailmakers about the choices. Expect a lot of agreement, but each will of course push what they think is best. You will however then be in a much better position to make an informed decision.
 
Tranona said:
A cruising chute was on the options list when the boat was new as was a large genoa. The combination of self tacking jib and a cruising chute is common. The question is really (if you go down that route) about 2 things. The first is the range the sail will cover and second the method of handling. You can get different cuts of sail, some of which will go deeper downwind than others. If you have free flying sail with an adjustable tack line you can have any cuts of the range and to ease raising and dropping you can have a snuffer. You will find strong views about snuffers but they are a relatively cheap way of controlling the drop in particular. If you want to go the much more expensive route of a furler then the cuts that allow deeper angles don't work, but the trade off is that flying and retrieving the sail from the cockpit is so much easier. It also means that you can set the sail up before you leave if you think you will get the conditions to use it - and where you are would guess that is almost every time you go out!

Well worth talking to 2 or 3 sailmakers about the choices. Expect a lot of agreement, but each will of course push what they think is best. You will however then be in a much better position to make an informed decision.
Click to expand...

A continuous line furler with a suitable gennaker / Code 0 is easy to deploy and get down quickly. A little less fraught (!?) than a gennaker/cruising chute with a snuffer. If you want to sail dead downwind, then a trad spinny or a twizzle is better. The alternative - and probably quicker is to sail quite deep and gybe every so often? What do you imagine you will prefer?
 
pagoda said:
A continuous line furler with a suitable gennaker / Code 0 is easy to deploy and get down quickly. A little less fraught (!?) than a gennaker/cruising chute with a snuffer. If you want to sail dead downwind, then a trad spinny or a twizzle is better. The alternative - and probably quicker is to sail quite deep and gybe every so often? What do you imagine you will prefer?
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If you read post#5 you will see I have already made my choice which is a cruising chute on a Selden furler with the furling line controlled through a double jamming block and running through Selden fairleads on the stanchions - essentially your first sentence and for the reasons you state.

I suggested the OP talks to sailmakers to get the pros and cons of each variation (as well as getting feedback from here) as you need to be clear about what you are trying to achieve before making what is a big investment. i have only tried mine twice so far and waiting for weather to improve to get a bit more experience.
 
Topcat47 said:
Definitely NOT the cheapest but look into the Parasail/parasailor. It's got a snuffer. Mine uses a device called a "tacker" which clips around the furled genoa. I can set and handle it singlehanded with the help of "George", my original Autohelm 2000 (so much more dependable than the Raymarine replacement). It lifts and steadies the bow which reduces any tendency to roll downwind. More fun per £ than my 1GM10 which is the most expensive thing I ever bought for the boat, the Parasail runs it a close second.
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Interesting idea and as the alternative for me would be an asymmetric on a top-down furler it might not be prohibitively expensive. But all their publicity photos show boats with mainsail down. Why is that? If I have to drop the main to fly the Parasailor then I'm not interested.
 
DJE said:
Interesting idea and as the alternative for me would be an asymmetric on a top-down furler it might not be prohibitively expensive. But all their publicity photos show boats with mainsail down. Why is that? If I have to drop the main to fly the Parasailor then I'm not interested.
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That is an alternative to a conventional spinnaker and does not do the same thing as an asymmetric on a furler which operates typically in a range from just forward of the beam to around 150 degrees depending on cut rather than dead downwind and maybe 30 degrees either side. popular for trade wind sailors doing long passages downwind as an alternative to a conventional spinnaker because it is claimed to be more stable.

So, as I suggested above, you need to be clear what you want out of the sail, particularly if you are only buying one.
 
Ive spoken to a couple of sailmakers and have discounted the Parasailor due to cost, my current thoughts are to go down the cruising chute with snuffer route, it suits our sailing, a top furler would be ideal but don't have the budget for it at the moment. Now I know what I'm looking for I'm going to trawl the second hand sites for a bargain, otherwise ill bite the bullet and buy new.

Thanks again all

Adrain
 
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