EA to remove lockside safety ladders and fire extinguishers

I don't know any lock keeper who would moan about removal of fire extinguishers. All of the lock keepers I know are not pleased with the intention to remove ladders. This vital safety equipment is in use during ( at least ) the summer season. If the EA worry about the weight make it a two man operation or provide lighter ladders . I am sure a member of the public can be found to help to deploy the ladder in an emergency.
The last sentence is the current position whilst the situation is under review.
 
I would agree about fire extinguishers most are practically useless if having to deal with anything more than a discarded cigarette! Best thing to have on board a boat is a fire blanket. We had a fire at work a few years ago that was confined to one small room, got through about 20 of those large handhelds you see beside the lock side that we robbed from everywhere, and still only made a small impact on the fire until the fire brigade arrived with proper kit.

Ladders are however essential and should be at every lock, people fall in at anytime not just off boats and that can be out of hours when no lockie there.

I believe these are only just proposals for discussion with user groups, so hopefully will be swiftly rejected.
 
Riverleak said:
What if a boat catches fire with the lock at the lower level? If there isn't a ladder how is the lock keeper, or anybody else for that matter, going to evacuate the vessel?
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I think the answer to this is fairly obvious, given the fact you are about to burn to death... :nonchalance:
 
These are not proposals. Lock keepers were informed that they would be removed. This caused such a reaction that it is now " under review " .
Don't assume common sense will prevail.
 
I have received a communication from the EA but have been asked not to circulate it generally due to ongoing discussion. However, I see no reason why I should not communicate a couple of specific paragraphs which may help in understanding the position.

With regard to fire extinguishers:
Following advice that fighting fires is best left to the experts in the Fire and Rescue Service, we have not trained staff in fire-fighting and the use of fire extinguishers for many years. Our water training and rescue providers have recently reviewed our use of fire extinguishers at lock sites and have advised:
“(fire extinguishers) – should be present only if risk assessment requires it for staff to extinguish small fires or escape from buildings on the lock. If the EA provides fire extinguishers for public to use on board boats in the lock, there is a duty of care and a liability issue, so would recommend they are removed from public areas. EA staff should not be fighting fires on boats in the lock.”
Boaters have a responsibility for their own safety. The boat safety scheme requires all boats to have at least the minimum number of fire extinguishers relevant to the size of the boat and located near to the main fire risk points. A boat fire can and does happen anywhere on the river and not just when in the lock.
Should there be a fire in a lock getting people away from the fire is the priority. We expect our lock staff to get any boats close to the one on fire away from it, operating the lock gates if necessary to allow this. They should also seek to get the occupants off the boat on fire and as far away from it as possible. Our expectation of them is that they will call the emergency services and provide assistance to the best of their abilities without putting themselves or others at risk. But they are not trained or equipped to deal with emergency situations in the same way as the emergency services, and we do not ask them to behave as though they are. This is set out in standing instructions to staff which has been displayed in the lock office for many years. These instructions do not refer to fire extinguishers or their use.
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With regard to ladders:
.......have agreed to continue discussions with regard to the use of lock ladders and have put in place interim instructions that the use of lock ladders for recovery is a 2-person operation and other means of recovery must be used if there is only 1 member of staff on the lock side
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Please treat this information in the spirit in which I have provided it. Every time an issue like this arises there is an immediate outcry, usually before we have had any opportunity to establish the facts. Maintaining good communications and relationships with the EA, as with any government body is never easy but it is not helped when they are subjected to a barrage of complaint arising from rumour and towpath gossip !

 
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boatone said:
Sorry, Fred, you've lost me !
This matter is all about the ladders kept lockside for use in an emergency. It is not about the recessed ladders fixed within the walls of some locks.
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My fault entirely, did not appreciate that it was the portable type of ladder often visible that was under dispute.
 
"Please treat this information in the spirit in which I have provided it. Every time an issue like this arises there is an immediate outcry, usually before we have had any opportunity to establish the facts. Maintaining good communications and relationships with the EA, as with any government body is never easy but it is not helped when they are subjected to a barrage of complaint arising from rumour and towpath gossip !"

That is fair enough but the fact that someone presumably with a degree of power over things came up with the idea in the first place is somewhat worrying.
 
Ask yourselves two questions:

1/ Are lock keepers paid enough to risk their lives putting out a fire on somebody elses Boat?

2/ Are you prepared to pay more for them to be trained and fully equipped to do this?

Given the constant moaning from various forumites about 'The cost of everything' I suspect a fair few of you want something for nothing.

I also suspect some of you would consider a fair rise in the annual fee, but probably not given the normal amount of freeloaders who are already complaining about having to lock through without assistance.

Frankly (and I'm not going to make friends here) I think the apathy with regard to demands/real costs is rather treacherous with regard to boat owners who are too useless/helpless/lazy/arrogant (Delete as you wish) to undertake pressing a couple of buttons in order to negotiate a fully powered lock as it is, let alone wanting fully trained firefighters at each and every lock.

I like lock keepers, and wouldn't want any of them messing around with hand held extinguishers knowing what most boats have on board!*

*That odd gallon of Petrol most of us have on board for outboards/ Generators, even on Diesel boats, the 1-4 gallons of LPG nearly every boat has on board for cooking, and thats before we get to the fuel tanks, which contain enough power to propel 5 tonnes of boat from one end of the Thames to the other...
 
boatone said:
This matter is all about the ladders kept lockside for use in an emergency. It is not about the recessed ladders fixed within the walls of some locks.
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I assumed that all Thames locks, like all Crinan Canal locks (which are the only ones I have used) would have ladders built in. I'm quite surprised to find that that is not the case. A ladder lying on the bank beside the lock isn't going to be much use if you fall in on your own.
 
Ramage said:
Article here:
http://www.riverthamesnews.com/News868.html
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“This country awards the VC and other medals to people who put themselves at risk to save lives; the RNLI is composed of volunteers who put themselves often at very serious risk and I sincerely trust that I will never find myself in a situation where I would have to say that a keeper did nothing in a serious incident as he might be putting himself at risk.”

That's a nice sentiment, but anyone who has done first aid training knows that the first rule is "Don't make things worse by becoming a victim yourself". There is a suggestion in that quote that lock-keepers should put themselves at risk which is quite unhelpful.

The MAIB reports archive is full of accounts of people who put themselves at risk, and of how they died as a result.
 
JumbleDuck said:
I assumed that all Thames locks, like all Crinan Canal locks (which are the only ones I have used) would have ladders built in. I'm quite surprised to find that that is not the case. A ladder lying on the bank beside the lock isn't going to be much use if you fall in on your own.
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Most, if not all, locks have steps built in to both sides of the lock - usually one at each end on opposite sides.

You can see them here on both sides of Chertsey Lock (probably not see a lockie there very often though ! :( )
chertsey1.jpg
 
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Just to throw a little oil on the water. do not like those staircase type steps one little bit.
Become very slippery with the least bit of growth on them,plus require a large chunk of lock chamber wall missing to accomodate them.
Give me a nice iron ladder anyday.
 
boatone said:
Most, if not all, locks have steps built in to both sides of the lock - usually one at each end on opposite sides.
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Danke schön. What are the ladders for, then? Forgive my ignorance - I lived next to Iffley Lock for a couple of years but never went through it without Mr Salter's chaps doing the hard work.
 
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