EA to remove lockside safety ladders and fire extinguishers

Here is the letter that NABO has written to Sir Phillip Dilly

NABO has written to Sir Philip Dilley, Chairman of Environment Agency expressing its concern on the safety impact of proposed changes on Thames lock operations.

"Dear Sir Philip

NABO, the National Association of Boat Owners, is dedicated to promoting the interests of private boaters on Britain's canals and rivers. (see www.nabo.org.uk).

Our organisation is well-represented on the rivers, especially the Thames, where members now have some serious concerns about the impact of budget cuts on the operations of the Navigational Authority for the river, the Environment Agency.

We have been advised that there are two areas of policy change which, if true, would be of specific concern to us.

1. We understand that it is proposed that lock and weir keepers should no longer attempt to fight any boat fires in or near their lock. We have also been advised that the existing fire extinguishers available at the lock-side for use in such circumstances are to be removed and replaced with a single 1-kilo unit that would be inadequate to help put out a fire in a boat. Presumably, now, in the event of a fire the lock and weir keepers are expected to call the emergency services and wait?

May we ask you to visualise an accident in an empty lock where a boat catches fire? Indeed – as you will be aware –there have been far too many examples over the past few years of just such incidents. When a boat is burning, especially in a lock, the chances of the fire being passed on to other boats is very high. As most of these fires are related to the petrol held on most river-cruising boats, the Boat Safely Scheme has paid particular attention to this issue and recently released additional advice on preventing such occurrences, but we cannot be complacent that these measures would eliminate boat fires in all cases. Past experience suggests that delays caused by waiting for the emergency services could considerably exceed the national average target of 10 minutes, whereas rapid action to hold back a fire could well ensure that lives could be saved.

2. Lock-side portable ladders, used for extracting boaters who have fallen into a lock when it is “empty” or at its low level status, are to be eliminated – we believe – because they are “too heavy”! Despite their weight, for 40 years they have still allowed endangered boaters to climb out of a frightening environment. However, if someone does fall in in the future, presumably again the new instruction is to call the emergency services? Another 10-minute-plus delay for a child/OAP immersed in a cold water chamber with slimy walls, especially in freezing cold water, would be likely to result in deaths. Much lighter modern alternatives to the heavy ladders could and should be made available.

Clearly, the changes that we understand are being proposed would potentially make bad situations worse. If introduced, they could result in serious injury or fatalities, and might also expose the Environment Agency to potential legal action.

Can we please ask you to confirm or deny whether the above changes are being seriously considered? If they are, we earnestly request that you review them again from a “health and safety”, as opposed to a financial, perspective. We would also urge your navigational colleagues to consult closely with those who are at the forefront of the use of the rivers, i.e., the boating community. Our organisation is always willing to act as conduit to ensure that such communications are as effective as possible.

Yours faithfully
Dr Mike Rodd FIET CEng
Chairman, National Association of Boat Owners"
 
Riverleak said:
Here is the letter that NABO has written to Sir Phillip Dilly

NABO has written to Sir Philip Dilley, Chairman of Environment Agency expressing its concern on the safety impact of proposed changes on Thames lock operations.

"Dear Sir Philip

NABO, the National Association of Boat Owners, is dedicated to promoting the interests of private boaters on Britain's canals and rivers. (see www.nabo.org.uk).

Our organisation is well-represented on the rivers, especially the Thames, where members now have some serious concerns about the impact of budget cuts on the operations of the Navigational Authority for the river, the Environment Agency.

We have been advised that there are two areas of policy change which, if true, would be of specific concern to us.

1. We understand that it is proposed that lock and weir keepers should no longer attempt to fight any boat fires in or near their lock. We have also been advised that the existing fire extinguishers available at the lock-side for use in such circumstances are to be removed and replaced with a single 1-kilo unit that would be inadequate to help put out a fire in a boat. Presumably, now, in the event of a fire the lock and weir keepers are expected to call the emergency services and wait?

May we ask you to visualise an accident in an empty lock where a boat catches fire? Indeed – as you will be aware –there have been far too many examples over the past few years of just such incidents. When a boat is burning, especially in a lock, the chances of the fire being passed on to other boats is very high. As most of these fires are related to the petrol held on most river-cruising boats, the Boat Safely Scheme has paid particular attention to this issue and recently released additional advice on preventing such occurrences, but we cannot be complacent that these measures would eliminate boat fires in all cases. Past experience suggests that delays caused by waiting for the emergency services could considerably exceed the national average target of 10 minutes, whereas rapid action to hold back a fire could well ensure that lives could be saved.

2. Lock-side portable ladders, used for extracting boaters who have fallen into a lock when it is “empty” or at its low level status, are to be eliminated – we believe – because they are “too heavy”! Despite their weight, for 40 years they have still allowed endangered boaters to climb out of a frightening environment. However, if someone does fall in in the future, presumably again the new instruction is to call the emergency services? Another 10-minute-plus delay for a child/OAP immersed in a cold water chamber with slimy walls, especially in freezing cold water, would be likely to result in deaths. Much lighter modern alternatives to the heavy ladders could and should be made available.

Clearly, the changes that we understand are being proposed would potentially make bad situations worse. If introduced, they could result in serious injury or fatalities, and might also expose the Environment Agency to potential legal action.

Can we please ask you to confirm or deny whether the above changes are being seriously considered? If they are, we earnestly request that you review them again from a “health and safety”, as opposed to a financial, perspective. We would also urge your navigational colleagues to consult closely with those who are at the forefront of the use of the rivers, i.e., the boating community. Our organisation is always willing to act as conduit to ensure that such communications are as effective as possible.

Yours faithfully
Dr Mike Rodd FIET CEng
Chairman, National Association of Boat Owners"
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I highlighted the ladder situation on the TMBA Facebook site on the 29 Sepember, I was not aware about the fire extinguishers. Well put and I will look forward to seeing the reply. Keep the pressure on.
 
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No doubt the rationale for the extinguishers will be staff are not trained / otherwise equipped to tackle fires, so removing the extinguisher removes the risk of them trying to do so. Kafka-esque indeed, but the same theory that saw the removal of FEs from police vehicles, offices, etc.

Yes, there may be more cremated boaters, but they aren't employees so that doesn't matter :(
 
The problem with that is that if someone is stuck on a burning boat, the lockie will more than likely still try to help but now without the protection of an extinguisher.
 
Tough call for the lockie.
Personal view.If all crew have been evacuated from craft irrespective of its location, no lives were in danger or injuries likely to be avoided by intervention,would let the thing burn,no matter how many boats involved.
Lives are far more important than your pride and joy.
Leave it to the professionals,can just imagine a gas cylinder going off and ruining somebody elses day,simply because of some boat owner putting pressure on the lockie to "do something"
Time for somebody to pipe up about H & S and abolishing the nanny state BSC, come on..... you know you want to :)
 
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But then you have hire boats to consider. Crews that haven't been told what to do in the event of a fire, won't have considered how to get out and probably won't have familiarised themselves with where the extinguishers are located.
 
prof pat pending said:
But then you have hire boats to consider. Crews that haven't been told what to do in the event of a fire, won't have considered how to get out and probably won't have familiarised themselves with where the extinguishers are located.
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Hire boat operators code of conduct requires all hirers to be given a handover briefing so they should, at least, be aware of location of extinguishers. Are you suggesting that we should not expect people to have some regard for their own safety?

If you are on a boat in a lock how quickly could you get lockside to access an extinguisher, and how easy would it be for someone bankside to actually access your boat if they grabbed an extinguisher? - they are only available during duty hours anyway.

I am not saying I agree with them being removed but they are not the whole story.
 
I'm not suggesting that at all, but I am suggesting that the briefings are somewhat lacking unless they have changed a lot since 2011 (the last time I hired a boat). I've rented a lot of boats over the years, I don't recall ever being told how to get out of a boat in an emergency or where the fire fighting equipment is located. Yes, I did make a point of finding it all, but I seriously doubt that all holiday makers do.

I'm also not suggesting that I would try to get lockside to grab an extinguisher rather than grab one of my own first, but I would have thought that the lockie would make an attempt to help any crew in the cabin if the cockpit was on fire. I would hope that is human nature and that regulation won't take priority over that.
 
Suspect that no lockeeper I know is merely going to stand by and watch, rules or no rules and irrespective of the absence /presence of recognised safety gear.
 
Taking existing ladders away seems madness, even if a lockie isn't there a boater can use them to help get someone else out. Having fallen into a lock myself I know they are not easy to get of on your own, especially without a ladder of some sort. ladders have no servicing costs and presumably every lock already has one, this is madness.
 
boatone said:
No-one has mentioned that powered craft carry their own fire extinguishers which will be more instantly accessible to those on board.
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True. Mine exceed the requirements of the BSS and I had cause to use one of them very recently(not on the boat I hasten to add). They don't half run out quickly!
 
Ultimately, the safety of a boat and crew are the responsibility of the Skipper.

This means maintaining the boat, and using it in a safe fashion, and briefing crew on the location of fire extinguishers, among other things.

I wouldn't expect a lock keeper to risk life and limb by pouncing about with a fire extinguisher on a boat bobbing about in a lock. It's not an easy thing to get on board with a 15kg chunk of iron in hand, and it's as likely to add another victim to any eventuality.

In the event of a boat fire, the best thing the crew can do is try to put it out with the boats gear, and failing that abandon ship and let the boat sink.

The boat is worthless compared to maiming any human as Fire usually does.

Not many boat fires are going to be successfully fought by the time a lock keeper could reasonably be expected to notice it.

This may not be agreeable to some, but it's my opinion....
 
What if a boat catches fire with the lock at the lower level? If there isn't a ladder how is the lock keeper, or anybody else for that matter, going to evacuate the vessel?
 
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