E Spain or Portugal?

[Grehan]

Currently wintering in central France, we'll travel down south in April and then travel the Canal de Deux Mers to Bordeaux (or at least as far as Toulouse).
Ah, but what do we do then?

We could re-step, sail out into the Garonne, then south and west, round Finisterre and cruise down Portugal, Gibraltar and round to Andalucia. We've heard Portugal and the rivers are a 'must' but we're uncertain as to typical sea/sailing conditions (May-June, say).

or

We could turn around, go back down the canal, re-step and then enter the Med at Port la Nouvelle, then travel down the Costa Brava, Blanca, etc. We've sailed in the eastern Med, but have heard the western Med is liable to both calms and wham bam high winds (eg Mistral).

[Medium-term (summer-autumn) objective - do some pleasant cruising in Mediterranean latitudes.
Longer-term objective (probably) to overwinter in Andalucia where we'll have use of an apartment.]

What would you do?
Would very much welcome some advice and the benefit of experience. Thanks.

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple>Grehan ::<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.greyfox.ukhq.co.uk/index_grehan.htm> www.greyfox.ukhq.co.uk</A>

 

[MedMan]

There is no simple answer. What do you want to do? How many crew do you have? How experienced are they? What do you and they want to get out of the year?

There are three major differences between the two routes: distance, spacing of harbours and sea-type. From Toulouse to Malaga (not a place to stay - just a central point in Andalucia) is just over 800 miles via the Med and nearly 1500 miles round the outside. Harbours around the outside are (in places) much more widely spaced so you will have more long passages. The inside route is via the Mediterranean, the outside via the Atlantic Ocean.

I have done both (the Med route travelling north) and enjoyed both. If you would like to read about both journeys have a look at my website - link below.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.yachtretreat.com>http://www.yachtretreat.com</A>

 

[cynthia]

Sailed from La Rochelle to Portimao last year, setting off 3rd April in Bav. 34.

Went to Santander first, but with hindsight would head straight for Gijon. Good sailing and interesting places from there onwards. Lovely to visit places like Islas Cies in May when there was no-one else about and the weather was good.
The Ria Bs are wonderful.

The April weather was a bit iffy, but we managed some good sailing. Left the boat for three months in Nazare. The sailing in Sept. was much less interesting, with only light winds, which in rolling seas was a bit tedious - still the places we visited made up for that.

Glad we didn't miss it.

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[Trevor_Smith]

I am currently in Barbate, have really enjoyed the trip down, lots to see and some excellent ports of call. Quality of sailing improved after rounding to the Algarve, excellent from there. Take your time and enjoy trips ashore.

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[Gerry]

We have very much enjoyed cruising the Algarve. You can get useful information about that from Martin Northey´s site www.martinnorthey.net Here is what he says about the summer weather:

I do not consider myself to be a weather expert but, as a Yachtmaster Instructor, I am expected to have a basic knowledge. With that understanding of the fundamentals of weather plus ten-years experience of sailing and motor cruising along the Algarve coast, here is my view on the mechanics of the Algarve summer weather.



I think of the Algarve summer as beginning in June and ending in September. For most of that period there is high pressure centred on the Azores which extends right across the Iberian peninsular. High pressure areas do not have frontal systems and so as long as our barometers are showing high pressure the weather is always good. As the wind revolves around a high pressure area in a clockwise direction our wind comes from the north for most of this period. This is known as the gradient wind. The strength of this wind is no more than force 2 or 3, however during the afternoon and early evening on the west coast this will back into the north west and increase to force 6 or 7 as a result of the on-shore breeze effect. This will make passages northwards from Cape St Vincent hard work in the afternoon and early evening. A better time to sail or motor northwards is between 9 pm and about 11 am the next day.



The onshore breeze effect, mentioned above, is a result of the heat of the sun warming up the air above the land. This hot air rises and sucks cooler air in from above the sea. Early and late in the summer this often creates a string of clouds along the coast caused by the moisture content in the warm rising air meeting colder air at a higher level and condensing to form cloud, which is usually ‘burnt off’ by the sun as the day progresses.



On the south facing Algarve coast there will be a force 2 to 3 gradient wind from the north to north west during the night and until about 10 am when the wind will drop to nothing. Then an hour later at about 11 am the wind will pick up again from somewhere between west and south. This is the combination of the onshore breeze effect from the south and the gradient wind from the north.



By mid afternoon this onshore breeze will quickly veer back into the north west and often increase to force 7 or more. This wind appears to be at it’s strongest between Portimao and Lagos, where at times there can be violent gusts of up to 40 knots. The reason that the wind veers and increases in the mid afternoon is that Andalucia and Morocco have heated up enormously during the course of the day and have a massive onshore breeze effect pulling the colder air from over the sea to their north west which, combined with Portugal’s northerly gradient wind and the onshore breeze effect on the west coast, totally cancels out our local Algarve onshore breeze giving us a very strong north westerly wind for the rest of the afternoon and evening.



I was asked recently why do we sometimes get a very strong northerly wind in the Algarve in the middle of the night. The explanation for this is exactly the opposite to the reason for the on-shore breeze effect during the day. The land cools off quite quickly during the night and with no cloud cover so does the air, however the sea remains much the same temperature at night and warms up the air over the sea which rises and sucks the cooler air over the land south to replace the air that has risen, this off-shore breeze will be noticeable for up to about seven miles inland and when combined with the force 2 to 3 gradient wind may reach force 5 or more with occasional violent gusts.



We do occasionally get a Levanter (east wind). This will be caused by a high pressure area centred in France, Germany or the north of Spain. This wind brings warmer water from the Andalucian coast to our beaches in the Algarve and usually in the summer good weather.



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[Grehan]

Thanks for all replies to date. Much appreciated.

What do you want to do?
Enjoy ourselves, extend our sailing experience.

How many crew do you have?
Usual cliche husband-wife sell up and sail complement.

How experienced are they?
A few years sailing, nothing too strenuous (1 gale at sea, at night, some Channel crossings).

What do you and they want to get out of the year?
Not sure. Enjoy ourselves, extend our sailing experience. Explore new areas that aren't too expensive, or (very) difficult (! = not too seriously frightening). Maybe end up in Andalucia for the winter. Maybe somewhere else "better" (whatever that means . . . ) Meet some good folks. Same old dream . . . You know.

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple>Grehan ::<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.greyfox.ukhq.co.uk/index_grehan.htm> www.greyfox.ukhq.co.uk</A>

 

[Danthegorrila]

Hi,
Both seem to be very viable possiblities, we traveled down the Spanish and Portugese coast from Gijon to Malaga during the late summer and autmn last year and would definatly recommend it. The idea that the Portugese coast is hard work is not at all right if you have plenty of time. There are great marinas and places to go Bayona, cascais and Porto especially worthwhile.

The wind is predominatly N or NW which makes for easy sailing, although often in a big swell, we had to motor on quite a few days particularly in the mornings.

No where is more than a day sail I think the longest passages we made we 1 of 80miles and 2 of 60 the rest were 20-50 nice day trips, there was so much to see that we were only sailing 1-2 days per week.

One other things to consider is that this is a hi-way of people doing the same thing, we met up with people time and time again and often arrived to have friends catch our lines! No a rally but like minded people. To us in our first live aboard year this was very important and we still have a big bunch of friends.

Winter berths in Andalucia are very difficult! Arrive book for a couple of days and then negociate. We have enjoyed Caleta de Velez.

Sarah has a YM articale about the trip waiting for publication but it will be too late for you I should think.

send a PM if you want

<hr width=100% size=1>PB

 

[Vasco]

NW Spain and Portugal

I would go straight to La Coruna. Spend the time you would otherwise spend in jobs like stepping masts and planning locking times and all that just cruising the Rias. It's a beautiful shore and there is plenty of shelter and nice little coves that all pilots and guides will tell you about.

Everybody else here has allready given you a very good idea of the weather and sailing conditions. I'm Portuguese , used to live 15m away from Nazare , am quite familiar with the area and I have nothing to add there.

Then just pick your stopovers down the coast.You can make it to La Coruna to Lagos in 5 days or less , but you would be missing a lot of interesting things in your way. And at some point you will find yourself in Lagos and off Cape St.Vincent and you will start looking more to the Southwest. The Canaries look quite close from there...
I hope you have a good time !

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