Dyneema to set a hank on storm jib?

[Supertramp]

I recently swapped my removeable inner forestay and hank on jibs for a roller furler. All good, happy with the change.

But now I cannot set a storm jib unless I buy a new sleeve type sail to fit over the furled sail. I don't want another removeable forestay. In practice I am unlikely to need a storm jib and a part furled inner jib is a much simpler solution, saving all the rigging of sheets, halyards etc. I also carry a trysail which launches up the mast alongside the furling main. I am coastal sailing in UK/Eire waters, boat is a 36ft ketch.

Has anyone used Dyneema soft shackles to attach and set a hank on sail over a furled jib?

Or are there other solutions?

 

[geem]

I recently swapped my removeable inner forestay and hank on jibs for a roller furler. All good, happy with the change.

But now I cannot set a storm jib unless I buy a new sleeve type sail to fit over the furled sail. I don't want another removeable forestay. In practice I am unlikely to need a storm jib and a part furled inner jib is a much simpler solution, saving all the rigging of sheets, halyards etc. I also carry a trysail which launches up the mast alongside the furling main. I am coastal sailing in UK/Eire waters, boat is a 36ft ketch.
View attachment 209155
Has anyone used Dyneema soft shackles to attach and set a hank on sail over a furled jib?

Or are there other solutions?

Unless you are intending to do ocean passages, I wouldn't worry about a storm jib. We have the same set up as you. We need to remove our jib to set the storm jib. Even with many long distance miles under our belt, we have never set the storm jib. The heavy duty furled jib has been sufficient for our needs.

 

[William_H]

I would imagine the use of dyneema soft shackles would be fine for hanking on the storm jib around a furled jib. Of course you should as with any jib be mainly relying on halyard tension to hold the luff up but hanks do seem to be necessary. You will need yet another halyard to haul storm jib up. ol'will

 

[geem]

I would imagine the use of dyneema soft shackles would be fine for hanking on the storm jib around a furled jib. Of course you should as with any jib be mainly relying on halyard tension to hold the luff up but hanks do seem to be necessary. You will need yet another halyard to haul storm jib up. ol'will

In storm conditions, trying to hoist a storm jib over a furled jib would be very difficult. Strong wind and friction of the furled sail would be a big issue.
These sleeved storm jib designs are a joke. In strong winds, the risk of furled sails trying to unfurl is an issue. We have extra long furling lines and sheets that allow us to put many extra wraps of the sheets around the sail to make sure they don't flap lose. Hoisting a sleeved storm jib over the wraps of sheet and the general friction in the furled sail when winds are +40kts just isn't going to happen.
If the OP accepts that you removed the jib to fit the storm jib, everything you need to hoist the storm jib is there

 

[Snowgoose-1]

Off topic.

I've often wondered about storm sails.

Perhaps a storm tri sail would be better in some conditions. Lower and with power in the centre of the boat rather than in the ends. No boom swinging about. I wonder if anyone here has used one. Or perhaps rigged it.

 

[Supertramp]

Off topic.

I've often wondered about storm sails.

Perhaps a storm tri sail would be better in some conditions. Lower and with power in the centre of the boat rather than in the ends. No boom swinging about. I wonder if anyone here has used one. Or perhaps rigged it.

No, but I have changed many hank on headsails in F6-7. Its an ordeal, especially singlehanded with the simplest tasks becoming difficult. And even more so if everything isn't rigged and in place already - running a sheet down the lee side is an example. Its worth doing a practice on a brisk day to discover what can go wrong.

My experience with coastal sailing is having a sudden spell of winds well in excess of forecast caused by local weather and geography. Hardly worth rigging storm sails for that.

 

[Supertramp]

In storm conditions, trying to hoist a storm jib over a furled jib would be very difficult. Strong wind and friction of the furled sail would be a big issue.
These sleeved storm jib designs are a joke. In strong winds, the risk of furled sails trying to unfurl is an issue. We have extra long furling lines and sheets that allow us to put many extra wraps of the sheets around the sail to make sure they don't flap lose. Hoisting a sleeved storm jib over the wraps of sheet and the general friction in the furled sail when winds are +40kts just isn't going to happen.
If the OP accepts that you removed the jib to fit the storm jib, everything you need to hoist the storm jib is there

I agree. The scope for ropes to get tangled if you rig a sail under horrible conditions is significant, especially singlehanded. The second furler is a game changer. If I still feel vulnerable about no storm jib, I will fit a furler luff to it so I can remove the inner jib and replace with a storm jib with all lines already in place.

There is noticeable windage from two furled jibs and I have already made a mental note to drop one or both the next time I face F10+ at anchor.

Whole different situation if you are offshore and hunkering down for a 24hr+ gale - not something I am planning for.

 

[dunedin]

In storm conditions, trying to hoist a storm jib over a furled jib would be very difficult. Strong wind and friction of the furled sail would be a big issue.
These sleeved storm jib designs are a joke. In strong winds, the risk of furled sails trying to unfurl is an issue. We have extra long furling lines and sheets that allow us to put many extra wraps of the sheets around the sail to make sure they don't flap lose. Hoisting a sleeved storm jib over the wraps of sheet and the general friction in the furled sail when winds are +40kts just isn't going to happen.
If the OP accepts that you removed the jib to fit the storm jib, everything you need to hoist the storm jib is there

The voice of experience. And concurs with every other report I have heard.
I think the concept of a storm jib wrapping over and hoisted up a furled sail is, at best, only ever a means of ticking a box for an offshore race rule. Able to be demonstrated as required in a flat calm with full crew, then left at bottom of a locker forever after.

For proper offshore ocean sailing a better storm jib solution is needed. For coastal cruising a better forecast is the solution.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

Storm Jibs and Trisails are supposed to be rigged and ready before the storm arrives, not when it is already blowing a hoollie. Sure there are conditions when storm winds will suddenly arrive, but that is not normal, most are predicted, if not by forecast, with a barometer.

I would want the storm jib closer to the mast anyway than the current two furling jibs. There will be a lot of turbulent flow from the two furling sails if any windward work was required. Also the drag of the two furling headsails and storm jib up front, in storm conditions may negate, any upwind ability, compared to a storm jib and trisail working together as optimal as possible. If you are only going to consider down wind storm survival, then forget about a storm jib, or trisail and just use a JSD or other drag device from the stern.

I would have thought that a dyneema stay for a hanked on storm sail would be at a greater risk of wearing through at the high contact points of the hanks and possible friction heat increasing wear rate. Happy to be corrected and there are lots of queries on the internet around hanks and dyneema.

 

[Supertramp]

Storm Jibs and Trisails are supposed to be rigged and ready before the storm arrives, not when it is already blowing a hoollie. Sure there are conditions when storm winds will suddenly arrive, but that is not normal, most are predicted, if not by forecast, with a barometer.

I would want the storm jib closer to the mast anyway than the current two furling jibs. There will be a lot of turbulent flow from the two furling sails if any windward work was required. Also the drag of the two furling headsails and storm jib up front, in storm conditions may negate, any upwind ability, compared to a storm jib and trisail working together as optimal as possible. If you are only going to consider down wind storm survival, then forget about a storm jib, or trisail and just use a JSD or other drag device from the stern.

I would have thought that a dyneema stay for a hanked on storm sail would be at a greater risk of wearing through at the high contact points of the hanks and possible friction heat increasing wear rate. Happy to be corrected and there are lots of queries on the internet around hanks and dyneema.

I think that is the key for me - the difference between preparing in advance versus reacting to an unforseen crisis.

I have wished for storm sails when caught in 30knt plus winds, but in reality the boat (and sails) have coped for the few hours. A well furled inner jib combined with a reefed mizzen should allow me to balance the boat and make to windward in those conditions - easier on a ketch perhaps.

Last year I started recording barometer pressure in my log book daily, or more often when conditions were changing. A useful addition to forecast info.