fireball
Well-Known Member
We do our best .... you know we do! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Dust-ups on PBO
- Thread starter tome
- Start date
theforeman
Well-Known Member
well at least this one hasn`t gone ascerbic /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif ( yet )
TheBoatman
Well-Known Member
Well thats knackered Rolls Royce areo engine Div - I thought that they had been bending stainless for years, even got a computorised machine to help them.
peter.
peter.
Sans Bateau
Well-Known Member
Thats the difference you see Rolls Royce use a computer, tome use some mysterious sort of thought wave transfer, bit like Urri Geller.
tome
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Some of those Emsworth boys will beat the system by dropping one over the stern when your not looking.Obviously you havent thought this one through have you?
[/ QUOTE ]
Might need a bit of fine tuning, s'pose
Some of those Emsworth boys will beat the system by dropping one over the stern when your not looking.Obviously you havent thought this one through have you?
[/ QUOTE ]
Might need a bit of fine tuning, s'pose
Seastar
Active Member
The DC10 aircraft landing gears hydraulic pipelines are connected via stainless steel pipe bend to a double curve that has to flex each time the gears are operated. There has never been a problem todate with this heavy flexing.
tome
Well-Known Member
I think you'll agree that they never operate the gear at sea-level, so not relevant to boats at all
pappaecho
Well-Known Member
Re: Electrons and electricery
Bit worried about the belt drive on the washing machine. My latest proudly boasts pinion drive, so no possibility of the belt breaking. Funny that my 1978 Perkins 4108 has a similar system
Bit worried about the belt drive on the washing machine. My latest proudly boasts pinion drive, so no possibility of the belt breaking. Funny that my 1978 Perkins 4108 has a similar system
bilbobaggins
N/A
These aircraft hydraulic pipes will be 'lifed items', and will be inspected by professionals at very frequent intervals - and replaced at a certain age in their fatigue life, come what may.
How many of us do anything similar?
One of my mates owns a boat that's over 25 years old. He's had several failures of pipework, each one resulting in the unavailability of the engine. To me, that's probably down to 'work hardening', and the remaining bits all need to be replaced, before more of 'em fail at inconvenient moments.
The replacement of 'lifed items' is mandatory in aviation safety. In our world, it's optional - and most of us don't bother until something fails, often unsafe.
Have we got the wrong approach?
/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
How many of us do anything similar?
One of my mates owns a boat that's over 25 years old. He's had several failures of pipework, each one resulting in the unavailability of the engine. To me, that's probably down to 'work hardening', and the remaining bits all need to be replaced, before more of 'em fail at inconvenient moments.
The replacement of 'lifed items' is mandatory in aviation safety. In our world, it's optional - and most of us don't bother until something fails, often unsafe.
Have we got the wrong approach?
/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
tome
Well-Known Member
Food for thought indeed
Is it worth servicing my Plastimo toilet? After all, a replacement every few years is only 100 quid a pop
Is it worth servicing my Plastimo toilet? After all, a replacement every few years is only 100 quid a pop
bilbobaggins
N/A
I'd really like to generate an informed discussion on this topic, with input from pro engineers re 'principles and practice'. As I understand it, in aviation they consider two maintenance modes - 'preventative' and 'repairative'.
In the former, they include all components where failure - fatigue, strain, mechanical wear - is likely to result in a safety issue e.g. flight controls, fuel and engine systems, u/c, certain nav gear.....
This stuff is manufactured and certificated to certain standards, and has a determined 'life'. It is inspected by pros at defined intervals ( scheduled servicing ), and items are replaced at certain ages, regardless. An expensive option, until you consider the costs of failure to do critical maintenance.....
The rationale is that air safety is enhanced by a preventative maintenance program, and more people will pay to fly. We have the rudiments of this in liferaft and jacket inspections, insurance-lead rigging inspections, and gas bottle/pipework certification.
The other stuff is inspected only at much longer defined intervals, and replaced when it fails, or when advisory to prevent inconvenience e.g. seat covers, paint jobs, locker door catches.....
I happen to prefer a non-mandatory approach to boating, but I have seen lots of really unsafe gas installations on sailboats, in recent years. I've even seen an onboard gas fridge which vents inside the hull! I'd really like to see, for example, a 'consensus' that gas setups are professionally inspected at, say, 3-year intervals - and bubble-tested annually by owners.
What d'you think?
/forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
In the former, they include all components where failure - fatigue, strain, mechanical wear - is likely to result in a safety issue e.g. flight controls, fuel and engine systems, u/c, certain nav gear.....
This stuff is manufactured and certificated to certain standards, and has a determined 'life'. It is inspected by pros at defined intervals ( scheduled servicing ), and items are replaced at certain ages, regardless. An expensive option, until you consider the costs of failure to do critical maintenance.....
The rationale is that air safety is enhanced by a preventative maintenance program, and more people will pay to fly. We have the rudiments of this in liferaft and jacket inspections, insurance-lead rigging inspections, and gas bottle/pipework certification.
The other stuff is inspected only at much longer defined intervals, and replaced when it fails, or when advisory to prevent inconvenience e.g. seat covers, paint jobs, locker door catches.....
I happen to prefer a non-mandatory approach to boating, but I have seen lots of really unsafe gas installations on sailboats, in recent years. I've even seen an onboard gas fridge which vents inside the hull! I'd really like to see, for example, a 'consensus' that gas setups are professionally inspected at, say, 3-year intervals - and bubble-tested annually by owners.
What d'you think?
/forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
LadyInBed
Well-Known Member
Have you given up smoking then? /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Ships_Cat
Well-Known Member
One could, of course, just replace the whole boat every couple of years with a brand new one.
However, those of us who have ever bought or had built for us brand new boats are aware of the "teething" problems inevitably found. There is probably a message in that - don't replace anything unless looks as if going to fail (lots of smoke, frayed, etc, etc) and not worth repairing, has already failed and not worth repairing, or for good cosmetic/modernising reasons. Otherwise leave well alone and just thank the watery gods that it ain't broke (yet!).
John
However, those of us who have ever bought or had built for us brand new boats are aware of the "teething" problems inevitably found. There is probably a message in that - don't replace anything unless looks as if going to fail (lots of smoke, frayed, etc, etc) and not worth repairing, has already failed and not worth repairing, or for good cosmetic/modernising reasons. Otherwise leave well alone and just thank the watery gods that it ain't broke (yet!).
John
bilbobaggins
N/A
I'm not necessarily advocating an aviation 'preventive maintenance' approach - simply raising the issue for discussion. I have the view that some bits of systems do need more frequent attention than they get - e.g gas supply pipes, bilge pump seals and valves - but many others can be fixed after they fail. Like the forestay toggle on a Dragonfly 1000 that was half-missing, which cost a mast and a set of sails. Like the galv anchor attached to its galv chain by a small stainless bow shackle, which cost the owner..... Like the 'coded' Westerly Oceanlord, with a side draining gas locker, where the overboard drain holes had been blocked-up with bits of rubberised cable, ensuring that any gas leakage at the corroded manifold valve must find its way inboard.....
Different owners have different views. One I know well was quite comfortable with the mainsail seams opening up due to rotten stitching, no serviceable bilge pump, a stuffed alternator and worn-out batteries, cracks in hp diesel pipes, a foredeck hatch held on by loose self-tappers, and a permanently-blocked heads. He did, however, own a new top-of-the-range Raytheon radar and a very good drinks locker. Priorities, priorities!
Another bloke had every electronic gizmo and device that Maplins could sell to him. Duplicates, even! And three radios..... But he had *no* means on the foredeck of securing his anchor warp, there were cracks through the hulls layup letting water into both rear hulls, and his gas fridge was vented to the *inside*. Another candidate for a Darwin Award!
I suppose there will be half-a-dozen forumeers come on here to say that they have exactly the same 'character defects' on their boats, have had for years, and they're not dead yet, so there!
But you run your boat whatever way takes your fancy.....
The question remains - are there any boat bits and pieces that a consensus woud agree should have regular inspection and maintenance?
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Different owners have different views. One I know well was quite comfortable with the mainsail seams opening up due to rotten stitching, no serviceable bilge pump, a stuffed alternator and worn-out batteries, cracks in hp diesel pipes, a foredeck hatch held on by loose self-tappers, and a permanently-blocked heads. He did, however, own a new top-of-the-range Raytheon radar and a very good drinks locker. Priorities, priorities!
Another bloke had every electronic gizmo and device that Maplins could sell to him. Duplicates, even! And three radios..... But he had *no* means on the foredeck of securing his anchor warp, there were cracks through the hulls layup letting water into both rear hulls, and his gas fridge was vented to the *inside*. Another candidate for a Darwin Award!
I suppose there will be half-a-dozen forumeers come on here to say that they have exactly the same 'character defects' on their boats, have had for years, and they're not dead yet, so there!
But you run your boat whatever way takes your fancy.....
The question remains - are there any boat bits and pieces that a consensus woud agree should have regular inspection and maintenance?
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Ships_Cat
Well-Known Member
Well, as far as regular inspection and maintenance is concerned I do the whole boat regularly with walk and poke around, and running if necessary (eg the freezer compressor gets run every week summer and winter, engine is run fortnightly at worst summer and winter - radios, instruments, charging, etc every week. Everything gets inspected and is maintained as need becomes obvious from that. If easily able to be done by me it is done as soon as sensible, if more easily done by the yard is done as soon as sensible but if can wait for our 2 yearly haul out then waits 'til then.
As far as replacements are concerned that are justified only from from a time in service point of view ie not showing any signs of failure, I can only think of engine filters. Things such as oil changes, greasing the clutch plates in the windlass and various squirts of lubricant in a few places get done as required.
Maybe standing rigging to be replaced sometime, but as we have a strong rig that is still quite some time off unless fault shows beforehand. Our gas lines are synthetic and some say replace them every so many years but I think most are far too conservative on that and will be some time before I consider doing so (I keep an eye on the bendy bit behind the stove and the tee to the califont)..
Liferaft gets done about every 4-5 years (lives a very pampered inside existance so just gets done on the time cycle for its flares, batteries, etc). EPIRB serviced in date, lifejackets inspected but are hardly ever worn so like new, flares in date or no longer than a year past date (I don't place much store on the value of flares as we have a daylight visible mast head strobe, VHF DSC, SSB DSC - all with dual independant power supplies- 406 EPIRB, etc).
How's that for a start to get responses goin'?
John
As far as replacements are concerned that are justified only from from a time in service point of view ie not showing any signs of failure, I can only think of engine filters. Things such as oil changes, greasing the clutch plates in the windlass and various squirts of lubricant in a few places get done as required.
Maybe standing rigging to be replaced sometime, but as we have a strong rig that is still quite some time off unless fault shows beforehand. Our gas lines are synthetic and some say replace them every so many years but I think most are far too conservative on that and will be some time before I consider doing so (I keep an eye on the bendy bit behind the stove and the tee to the califont)..
Liferaft gets done about every 4-5 years (lives a very pampered inside existance so just gets done on the time cycle for its flares, batteries, etc). EPIRB serviced in date, lifejackets inspected but are hardly ever worn so like new, flares in date or no longer than a year past date (I don't place much store on the value of flares as we have a daylight visible mast head strobe, VHF DSC, SSB DSC - all with dual independant power supplies- 406 EPIRB, etc).
How's that for a start to get responses goin'?
John
A
Anonymous
Guest
Re Stainless shackles on galvanised chain, it is fine provided this is not for a permanent mooring. I have been through this argument myself, having believed that to be the case, and thoroughly researched it.
Spuddy
Well-Known Member
You touched a nerve AGAIN. Been away so missed the discussion you refer to
bilbobaggins
N/A
Maybe your old Plastimo throne will turn up in the RNLI Jumble at Beaulieu.....
It always amazes - and amuses - me what peeps carry away from That Boat Jumble. I've a mate wot collects folding boat bikes ( at one count he had seven of 'em - and two boats! ) and old Seagull engines - he cannibalises bits from one to the other.....
Same as his boats, really.
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It always amazes - and amuses - me what peeps carry away from That Boat Jumble. I've a mate wot collects folding boat bikes ( at one count he had seven of 'em - and two boats! ) and old Seagull engines - he cannibalises bits from one to the other.....
Same as his boats, really.
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif