Dusseldorf great and Oyster Yachts not so..

[jfm]

Most expensive yachts and motor vessels require an appointment for obvious reasons. They can check who you are and whether you have serious money or are a time waster.

The reasons might be obvious to you but they're not at all obvious to me. Thousands (literally) of folks have been on my boats at 4 shows (3 majors) without an appointment and that's how it should be, imho at least.

Your "have serious money or are a time waster" suggests you think everyone is in one of those categories. But actually many people are neither, such as the boat enthusiasts who don't have a lot of money yet. It's well known that most multiple millionaires made their money rather than inherited it, so it must be true that most people at boat shows who do have the money to buy a massive boat were, at one point in their lives, in neither of your two categories. But if boat builders forget that, and put those not in the "have money" category automatically into the "time waster" category, then they actually alienate most of their potential future customers. As Oyster seem to do.

 

[deuc02]

The reasons might be obvious to you but they're not at all obvious to me. Thousands (literally) of folks have been on my boats at 4 shows (3 majors) without an appointment and that's how it should be, imho

Totally agree.

 

[grumpy_o_g]

Has it occurred to you that the stand probably looked dead empty because all the staff were showing people around down below?

These boats will have been built for individuals, so Oyster need to keep the wear and tear at a show to the absolute minimum.

It's like having a house for sale, it doesn't mean anyone walking down the street should expect to barge in at their convenience, you talk to the agent and make an appointment.
It does relate to the question of what exactly boat shows are all about though.

If the boat were just sitting on a berth with a for sale sign on I might agree but this is at a boat show and the boat is there to be displayed to the public - who have travelled some distance and spent considerable money, including an admission fee to the show itself, to be there for the sole purpose of viewing the boats and other exhibiits. If Oyster aren't going to to make their boats viewable to the general public attending the boat show they shouldn't list themselves as an exhibitor to my mind.

 

[lw395]

If the boat were just sitting on a berth with a for sale sign on I might agree but this is at a boat show and the boat is there to be displayed to the public - who have travelled some distance and spent considerable money, including an admission fee to the show itself, to be there for the sole purpose of viewing the boats and other exhibiits. If Oyster aren't going to to make their boats viewable to the general public attending the boat show they shouldn't list themselves as an exhibitor to my mind.

I can see the logic in that, but it has long been common practice that admission to boats varies from stand to stand, and that your ticket does not guarantee you admission to any particular boat at your convenience, or even at all.
I posted earlier about the whole boat show thing being a bit odd. I cannot see why the general public bother going.
The builders are also paying, they are not paid by the organisers to entertain the punters.
They rent a space to operate however they choose.
If the public feel that this means the show is not giving them very much, that is between the public and the show organiser.

Last time I looked inside an Oyster at a boatshow, it was organised by my (then) boss, booked a good while in advance (weeks). I suspect they have a pretty full diary for the boats.
Equally I once went to the Swan stand, I told them I was refitting an old boat and wanted to look at some quality boats for ideas and comparisons. They generously made me an appointment for late in the day.
That's the way it works if you're lucky and ask nicely.
I don't think moaning about one builder is useful, when many builders are doing the same.

Lastly, I've never had a new boat in a show, but I had my old one in the used boat show, I expected the broker to look after it and take good control of who was aboard.

 

[AndrewfromFal]

It's pretty clear from Oyster's pre boatshow marketing (Adverts in the media, Website info, etc) that if you want ot be sure of getting on their boats, it's best to book an appointment, and on that basis I really don't see what the issue some people have is. Personally I've been on their stands at numerous shows, and found their salespeople courteous, welcoming and willing to answer questions from someone with no intention of buying their product in the foreseeable future.

jfm's point that today's penniless enthusiast is tomorrow's high net worth individual is all very well, but actually ignores the fact that actually, of every 1000 people who might be looking at your boat on that basis, only four or five will ever actually be in that position, and of those fewer still will translate into 'serious potential buyers', however well you look after them at this stage. - The reason that Powerboat manufacturers such as Sunseeker and Princess let anyone and everyone on their yachts at Boatshows, is because they feel they can enhance the value of their brand with 'aspirational mass appeal' (i.e. part of the value in the brand is the number of people for whom a Sunseeker for example, would be a 'lottery win' buy); - so they actually need to reach out to an audience beyond their actual buyers. A low volume, fairly niche sailboat manufacturer is unlikely to consider the same marketing strategy of use to them (or even plausible), which is probably why there is a difference in approach.

Given Oyster closed a customer at Dusseldorf on a £4million plus order, the strategy is clearly working for them.

 

[Sailfree]

Given Oyster closed a customer at Dusseldorf on a £4million plus order, the strategy is clearly working for them.

Makes one think of the high exhibition costs to small annual sales yacht manufacturers.

What was the total cost to Oyster of Dusseldorf , transport of boat stand cost staff cost hotel/travel costs. Lets say £250,000?? to be recouped on the sale of one boat!! makes you think!!

 

[Koeketiene]

Makes one think of the high exhibition costs to small annual sales yacht manufacturers.

What was the total cost to Oyster of Dusseldorf , transport of boat stand cost staff cost hotel/travel costs. Lets say £250,000?? to be recouped on the sale of one boat!! makes you think!!

Yes, the mark-up on a new boat must be HUGE.

 

[Seashoreman]

Sadly or luckily I'm of an age that doesn't remember Bristol cars.

Having good products and survival is about investing in R&D.

Following this thread with some interest but came to a stop here. What exactly is this R&D stuff? Tried a few ideas in my head but no....lost interest through bafflement.

 

[lw395]

Makes one think of the high exhibition costs to small annual sales yacht manufacturers.

What was the total cost to Oyster of Dusseldorf , transport of boat stand cost staff cost hotel/travel costs. Lets say £250,000?? to be recouped on the sale of one boat!! makes you think!!

Just makes me think you're guessing wildly about the cost of exhibiting TBH.
But even if it's a fraction of that, you'd still want to be spending the time wisely.
The gain is not just sales signed up at the show, but also magazine coverage, people who buy later in the year etc.

 

[dom]

Following this thread with some interest but came to a stop here. What exactly is this R&D stuff? Tried a few ideas in my head but no....lost interest through bafflement.

Brands/products live or die depending on the research and development (R&D) and marketing budgets devoted to them. E.g. Vickers was unable to invest adequately in lights, brakes, engines, paint and a host of other components when it owned Rolls-Royce/Bentley. The two brands withered away, until they were rejuvenated by BMW and VW some years later. Massive R&D spending both companies had previously conducted in all areas of automotive technology was key to both the R-R and Bently turnaround

Incidentally, both of these manufacturers positively try to create a good image amongst prospective buyers of their product. Oyster don't desire to entertain folk who fail to demonstrate and brandish their dosh in advance; though as others have pointed out they have an absolute right to run their business any way they like.

 

[Pinnacle]

Sadly or luckily I'm of an age that doesn't remember Bristol cars.

Having good products and survival is about investing in R&D.

Following this thread with some interest but came to a stop here. What exactly is this R&D stuff? Tried a few ideas in my head but no....lost interest through bafflement.

Research and Development.

EDIT - must type faster!

 

[Sailfree]

Just makes me think you're guessing wildly about the cost of exhibiting TBH.
But even if it's a fraction of that, you'd still want to be spending the time wisely.
The gain is not just sales signed up at the show, but also magazine coverage, people who buy later in the year etc.

Assuming a 60-70' boats can you give a better estimate?

 

[Lozzer]

Dusseldorf was excellent overall ! a pity the nice folks of Fairline were not present but really nice people from Princess kept me and 4 friends happy with inviting us for some beers & showing their nice lineup.

all in all very good experience!

But.. Oyster Yachts, incredibly unfriendly sales staff did not not want to allow me and my friends to their stand. They had a sales lady in Dusseldorf this Saturday afternoon who grinningly said:" it is not possible to see the boats today maybe come back tomorrow".. end of discussion from her side.. and this happened at approx. 3p-4pm with a few hours to go and also their stand looked dead empty..

If Oyster who make what 10 boats a year and they can afford to turn away boat owners of other brands and build this kind of image , then that is of course entirely their business and marketing strategy. I´m in the future looking to change to sailing but will stay clear of the Oyster guys as one thing I cannot stand, is rude and arrogant sales people when spending money.
Fortunately other sailing brands have mostly very nice sales people looking to give a good service so in that sense no issue. just wanted to share our experience with Oyster

Yacht

I have just read your OP again and I really think that you have been most unkind to Oyster and feel that you should apologise if you have based your comments on this one interaction.

They may well have been busy, they might even have had the owner of the yacht due in that afternoon and wanted to be on HIS yacht alone.

You interacted with one person from Oyster at their front desk, that person could have been a temporary member of staff not fully trained the Oyster way! Yet you have deemed to brandish everyone with the same brush.

Also what you have not taken into account the experience of buying a yacht isn't just the turning up to a boat show and handle over your deposit. There is a lot of interaction with the designers, project manager etc etc. the salesman might be a little sharp ( not my experience) but this is the nature of a salesman you have to look beyond that ( by the way I spent 18 years selling IT solutions for companies like IBM). Think of the backup service you will receive from their after sales department...

Sadly you have booked a judge by what you perceive to be its cover. You also. Think that the grass is greener on the other side.

As you will guess I am a champion of Oyster. I have seen them for years as being a great marque. I have friends that have owned numerous Oysters and not heard one criticism. I am fortunate enough to be working very closely with them at the moment and I he pict to end up with a fantastic product.

Ps I am intrigued to know the other brands that "give good service and have nice sales people"

 

[dom]

Yacht

I have just read your OP again and I really think that you have been most unkind to Oyster and feel that you should apologise if you have based your comments on this one interaction.

Oh I don't think he needs to apologise. I visited Earl's Court when I came to England in the 90s. Having previously sailed dinghies internationally I was a bit of a boat nut, but had never been on anything so grand as an Oyster. I still remember the scorn and contempt they showed to me and other curious people.

Some twenty years later many of us are the "serious buyers". Others, including my dad, who is a poor but useful, academic are "time wasters". Many of those who would have gone over every last detail of a little dinghy, or even fishing rod, as a child are now inclined to buy quite extraordinarily expensive things on a whim. Time is the new constraint.

But it all kind of works ...because sailing is one of the greatest levellers on earth, where money enthusiasm and talent can happily co-exist; where a diversity of wonderful folk bring different things to the party. Come to think of it, many start with talent, some get loads of dosh, then at some point all of us only have stories to tell.

I too can have no warm feelings to a yacht brand who so consciously seeks to profit by upsetting this harmony.

 

[Sailfree]

When we started visiting boat shows we were clearly Dinghy sailors who were talking about buying a bigger boat at some time in the future.

In the end it was a snap decision after a cold miserable competition and we bought a new boat where if I am honest was mostly because of the patience and respect we were given by this make at the boat show. We finally bought 2 new boats in 3 years from this make. I admit they were not Oyster prices but had our circumstances been different they might have been.

 

[Lozzer]

Wow Dom they really made you sad if you can recount it after 20 years... Perhaps they may have progressed since then.

I base my comments on working to conclude a deal for my boss. I have been in contact with Oyster for over a year talking to four different sales people, one left and the others were in different offices. All were extremely polite and very professional.

I have also dealt with Sunseeker, Princess and Fairline. The professionalism of Oyster in my opinion is way beyond these.

It would be interesting to know how you think Ferrari, Rolls Royce, Aston Martin etc would treat you if you turned up looking like you had been dragged through the hedge backwards.

I am sure anyone can get on an Oyster yacht at a show. You just have to be understanding.

Sail free, if you were spending a few million on a yacht you would not be put ofF because of the lack of patience and respect at a boatshow. You would have worked hard for your money and you would make sure you are buying the BEST. You would have done your research and made sure that you had appointments.

 

[Keen_Ed]

I have to say that from my experience I have found Oyster to be extremely professional. Having said that I did not turn up ad hoc at a boat show asking if I can look over one of their boats..

I had no problem when they had a 70ish at LIBS, a few years ago. "Can I have a look" "Not right now, sir, but we can make an appointment today" "What time?" "2pm?" (Or whatever it was). "Great, see you then."

What I was less impressed by was the great expanses in the saloon without handholds. Apparently, you rig rope lifelines across the saloon for when it's windy. Or, rather the crew do, as storms are only met on delivery. Or something.

 

[dom]

It would be interesting to know how you think Ferrari, Rolls Royce, Aston Martin etc would treat you if you turned up looking like you had been dragged through the hedge backwards.

I am not sure that the OP said he looked like he'd been pulled through a hedge backwards. But to answer to your question, my 20 year old son and a couple of his mates met some folk from R-R at the motor show and were invited to see the new R-R factory in Goodwood. They came back delighted and full of wonderful stories of Charles Rolls and Henry Royce; I'll bet they they'll still have good feelings about that brand in twenty years time and I'll also bet Charles and Henry will be happy their brand is being treated this way if they to be up there in the sky somewhere.

Incidentally R-R is a great example of a successful industrial collaboration between the Germans and the British. Oh and don't forget Henry Royce was a "time waster" whose aunt had to scrimp and save to pay for an engineering apprenticeship!

 

[sailorman]

I am not sure that the OP said he looked like he'd been pulled through a hedge backwards. But to answer to your question, my 20 year old son and a couple of his mates met some folk from R-R at the motor show and were invited to see the new R-R factory in Goodwood. They came back delighted and full of wonderful stories of Charles Rolls and Henry Royce; I'll bet they they'll still have good feelings about that brand in twenty years time and I'll also bet Charles and Henry will be happy their brand is being treated this way if they to be up there in the sky somewhere.

Incidentally R-R is a great example of a successful industrial collaboration between the Germans and the British. Oh and don't forget Henry Royce was a "time waster" whose aunt had to scrimp and save to pay for an engineering apprenticeship!

In Derby the RR factory is called Royce`s, after he was the engineer & not merely a salesman

 

[JumbleDuck]

I base my comments on working to conclude a deal for my boss. I have been in contact with Oyster for over a year talking to four different sales people, one left and the others were in different offices. All were extremely polite and very professional.

Quelle surprise.