Duseldorf 2018

jfm said:
Speak for yourself matey! I missed my connecting flight and am still at Heathrow. Tom Hanks situation. :D:D.
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J. I recon you're probably better off than myself stuck in an amazing roundtable discussion with a bunch of tree hugger nutters and I cannot find a way out :(

V
 
MapisM said:
RS21 by chance? That's a great toy I'd love to play with!
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Sadly not.

Its an inflatable sail boat like this

http://www.bhg-marine.co.uk/aquaglide-multisport-270-5424-p.asp

E1000 reduced to E900 haggled down to E800 inc delivery to Mallorca ( it weighs 30 kg odd).

I also bought a slide for the side of the boat

https://www.aquaglide.com/aquaglide-products/rebound-slide

Which was another E300 haggled down form E400 ish ( poor chap was glad to see me go!)

And finally... I bought the Volvo Engine adapter mentioned in the EVC Display thread - which with EVC A the chap in email was very honest that it will probably give me fuel flow but he could not guarantee it!

So all in a great day. Hospitality from Sunseeker and Princess.

The "boat of the show" in my view was the Galeon 640 which has an amazing walk through bow with tables and a sun cover, huge flybridge, 3 centreline cabins, platform access large crew cabin all for E1.5m INCLUDING tax, basic, or E2.2m as shown. Having looked through the "extras" I think they are being a bit economical with E1.5m as that would give you no AC, no washing machine, no TVs, no tables in the bow ( E8000 for the tables!!!) and most of the extras even by boat standards are eye watering . The paserelle ( not standard is E50k!).
 
jimmy_the_builder said:
And ps, I forgot to say, congrats to jrudge on the new boat, ordered today. Awesome! :D
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...and can you divulge what boat jrudge ordered, Jimmy? We'll be looking forward to another new build thread!! ��.........whoops, a little late with my post...sorry chaps!!

Anyway, enjoy your new toys jrudge.
 
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jrudge said:
The "boat of the show" in my view was the Galeon 640 which has an amazing walk through bow with tables and a sun cover, huge flybridge, 3 centreline cabins, platform access large crew cabin all for E1.5m INCLUDING tax, basic, or E2.2m as shown. Having looked through the "extras" I think they are being a bit economical with E1.5m as that would give you no AC, no washing machine, no TVs, no tables in the bow ( E8000 for the tables!!!) and most of the extras even by boat standards are eye watering . The paserelle ( not standard is E50k!).
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I know from experience that everything intended, related or adjacent to boats is expensive but an 8000€ table from Galeon, who is at value end of boats, seems way overpriced and a paserelle - something I would expect as a standard item on a boat that size - that costs as much as a quite nice Mercedes just seems bonkers. I wonder if you got the impression that there was a lot of “air” in the numbers to allow large discounts or if any “packages” (like a med. pack, with paserelle AC and stabilisers) was available. I wonder what such a huge spread between basic boat and fully fitted out does for the resale value.
 
MeaCulpa said:
I know from experience that everything intended, related or adjacent to boats is expensive but an 8000€ table from Galeon, who is at value end of boats, seems way overpriced and a paserelle - something I would expect as a standard item on a boat that size - that costs as much as a quite nice Mercedes just seems bonkers. I wonder if you got the impression that there was a lot of “air” in the numbers to allow large discounts or if any “packages” (like a med. pack, with paserelle AC and stabilisers) was available. I wonder what such a huge spread between basic boat and fully fitted out does for the resale value.
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With those prices for factory extras I would buy the bog standard cheapest spec then take somewhere like Osmotech or Landau to have the rest done
 
Boat2016 said:
With those prices for factory extras I would buy the bog standard cheapest spec then take somewhere like Osmotech or Landau to have the rest done
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To be fair, that €8000 is two tables, and they are not fixed. They are electrically operated to both raise/lower and to slide forward/backwards to allow different configuration of the deck.

Still pricey but perhaps not as bad as it first seemed.

Agree on the other stuff mind, and I do wonder if there is some margin to play with
 
jimmy_the_builder said:
Lots of interesting stuff to see - eg Fairline Targa 63 GTO, Princess V65 and the Galleon 640 was a boat load of value.
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Sorry to miss the fun. Looks like you lads had a great time. Any other new 60-65 footers at the show?
 
Whitelighter said:
To be fair, that €8000 is two tables, and they are not fixed. They are electrically operated to both raise/lower and to slide forward/backwards to allow different configuration of the deck.

Still pricey but perhaps not as bad as it first seemed.

Agree on the other stuff mind, and I do wonder if there is some margin to play with
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I have the price list in front of me.

A few choice extracts ....

Beach mode ( folding balconies) E59k ( probably fair enough and you could not retrofit)

Sunshade for front with carbon poles - E8100

Electric sunshade for flybridge E12,700 - to be fair fairline wanted GBP20,000 for there one!!!!

98k air con - E70k

Webasto heating E14300

Stern thruster E18100

Fridge in saloon E5100 !!

Disahwasher E1900

Washing Machine E3000

Tumbel dryer E3400 !!!

Additional electric skippers seat E12,600 - SWMBO will just have to stand

Iluminated headboards E15,800 !!

3d Galley Ceiling E8400

Anchor and chain ( which would be nice if standard) E10800

7 underwater lights E9400

Parerelle E49300

Bow teak tables E9600

TVs - range from E9000 to E5400 - for a 40 inch bear in mind they are less than £300!

Raymarine seemed in a different league with the list totalling about E100k


I know that extras on a boat are always daft - and you add them in then haggle the total - but even so to me many seem totally daft - especially as fitting is simple as the thing is in bits.

They have to make a profit of course and how they price is upto them but the suggestion of a basic boat and a retro fit out other than things like folding decks seems plausible!

There was a fairline dealer in mallorca who used to order all their boats without Air Con and retro fit to improve their margin. A guy on here used to do the work ... he can chime in if he likes ... so it is not a unique concept.

If i was a fairline agent selling the new GTO I would be tempted given they are pricing a sun blind at £19k - which I think excluded VAT and probably takes all of an hour to fit. All of the Galeon ones include 19% german VAT.

The Fairline GTO 63 foot by comparison was a shade under £1.7m as displayed with extras excluding tax- which seemed an awful lot of money for a 63 ft non flybridge - more so when you compare it to the Galeon ( different boats of course - but Galeon is a lot lot bigger ). I was chatting to JFM and he said that sort of pricing is the new norm ..... I am sure he is right but I cant really understand how the business model works. There has been huge boat price inflation ( thread a while ago) and manufactures continue to have issue or not make money and I cant help thinking they are on the wrong side of the price / demand curve.

Bear in mind that three years ago we bought a Squadron 65 brand new with a high spec for £1.2m excluding tax - so the gulf is pretty wide. That was some £1.7m list - I do wonder if you would sell far more if you just came out and said this is the price we want! I know Fairline were in a different position then, but the underlying economics don't really change and why not draw people in with a good price as opposed to scaring half of them off with a high one. Just my view!

The GTO was a nice boat - the only practical point was that the Galley had NIL storage. There was one half cupboard left after bins, crockery drawer, sink blanks, fridge, dishwasher etc. and there was no other obvious place to store food ( the Squadron 58 I have is the same - but has a thumping great utility room next to it where you can store food for a month) so as it stands actually living on it would be pretty tricky.

I am sure Fairline are not unique in this, I just happened to notice as the galley looks more like a sideboard and it peaked my interest to see where you would actually store stuff to host lunch!
 
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jrudge said:
The Fairline GTO 63 foot by comparison was a shade under £1.7m as displayed with extras excluding tax- which seemed an awful lot of money for a 63 ft non flybridge - more so when you compare it to the Galeon ( different boats of course - but Galeon is a lot lot bigger ). I was chatting to JFM and he said that sort of pricing is the new norm ..... I am sure he is right but I cant really understand how the business model works. There has been huge boat price inflation ( thread a while ago) and manufactures continue to have issue or not make money and I cant help thinking they are on the wrong side of the price / demand curve.

Bear in mind that three years ago we bought a Squadron 65 brand new with a high spec for £1.2m excluding tax - so the gulf is pretty wide. That was some £1.7m list - I do wonder if you would sell far more if you just came out and said this is the price we want! I know Fairline were in a different position then, but the underlying economics don't really change and why not draw people in with a good price as opposed to scaring half of them off with a high one. Just my view!
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Agree entirely. I've been looking at a few new boat pricelists recently and on average, a new 65 footer flybridge boat with some essential options costs £2m ex tax. About 5-7yrs ago the average price for a 65 footer was about £1m and that represents an enormous price increase in a very short space of time. Basically, for somebody like me, new boat price inflation is outstripping my ability to save for a new boat and then you've got to factor in depreciation. In 10yrs time that £2m boat is only worth £1m so you wonder whether there is any point at all to buying a new boat. Having said that, apparently new boats are flying off the shelves so somebody must be willing to chuck an enormous wodge of cash away on a new boat. But yes I agree that, if the boat building industry is going to prosper in the long term it is going to have to find a way of drastically reducing costs because, come the next recession, nobody will be willing to pay the kind of prices boat builders are currently asking
 
I’m typing this on the plane back, after three full days of wandering around the halls. Didn’t even visit all of them.

First off, it was very nice to meet the other forumites in person and put faces to usernames. Our reservedness eased slightly after the friendly welcome :).

The show itself is, in my view, fantastic. Just about everything and anything you need is there, you just need a bit of time to make the most of it.

Weekend was busier than Friday but we had zero problems in getting into the boats we wanted to see with minimal or no queueing at all. And we saw quite a few. Without going into details, a few general notions.

- competition has driven the quality up on brands that have traditionally been more focused on building at scale
- It seems that marketing really has taken over the design department, as simple things like lockers for ropes and fenders were either ridiculously small or didn’t exist at all. And this seemed evident pretty much across the board. In general, storage space has very often been sacrificed to living spaces.
- Propulsion systems seem to have been sized for two boats down in the lineup with IPS600 relied upon as the sole option on 50+ foot boats. (Eg. Prestige 520).
- New boats do seem to be flying off the production lines, with some manufacturers selling deliveries in spring 2020.

All in all, a great weekend made even better by the meeting of the esteemed forum members, some of whom i’ve Had the pleasure of meeting earlier, some for the first time :).
 
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petem said:
No need, IIRC Henry is going!
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Sadly not. In the end I had to do a bit of work now things are swinging back into action after the Christmas break. I will do the show at some point to satisfy my curiosit. After Cannes I think I know the best mid 50 foot flybridge boats available but that's for another thread ?

Henry :)
 
I did not have the chance to visit Dusseldorf this time unfortunately, but it sounds like it was a good edition.
I am interested to hear what the Dusseldorf group thinks about the Bavaria R55 versus the Princess 55 for instance. On paper the R55 looks like a very strong offer; 3 cabins, 3 heads, starting around 1 million EUR. Interested to hear to your views from seeing the boats in the flesh.

Cheers
Eric
 
I had a great 3 days in Dusseldorf. The boat show was massive, and I could have spent all three days there, but didn't. Even as someone who hates (non-boat) shopping, the centre of Dusseldorf has some great shops. Went to one of the traditional German breweries on Friday evening and was defeated by a massive roast pork knuckle. Beer went down nicely though. The city is pretty much closed on Sunday, but took the opportunity to go up the Rheinturm - the big tower by the river- and also a wander around the medienhafen to see the building with the "flossis" climbing it.

If I go back next year, I might tag along with you mobo guys, as my totally ignorance of power boats means I would struggle to blag my way onto any gin palaces... :o
 
Angele said:
I had a great 3 days in Dusseldorf. The boat show was massive, and I could have spent all three days there, but didn't. Even as someone who hates (non-boat) shopping, the centre of Dusseldorf has some great shops. Went to one of the traditional German breweries on Friday evening and was defeated by a massive roast pork knuckle. Beer went down nicely though. The city is pretty much closed on Sunday, but took the opportunity to go up the Rheinturm - the big tower by the river- and also a wander around the medienhafen to see the building with the "flossis" climbing it.

If I go back next year, I might tag along with you mobo guys, as my totally ignorance of power boats means I would struggle to blag my way onto any gin palaces... :o
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While there, I found your next boat for you. CNB 66. I will even offer to help you on the delivery trip! :D
 
Pinnacle said:
While there, I found your next boat for you. CNB 66. I will even offer to help you on the delivery trip! :D
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Yes, saw that. Nearly asked to have a look around. But spent a little too long looking at X-yachts, which I was quite taken with. Then on to diving, fishing, sailing holidays, chandlery, boat systems......

..... even a mobo or two. :)
 
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