Duck punt build - days 3 and four

dylanwinter

dylanwinter

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 Mar 2005
Messages
12,954
Location
Buckingham
www.keepturningleft.co.uk
high speed boat building

http://www.keepturningleft.co.uk/kt...duck-punt-taping-the-seams-two-more-evenings/


and the rest of the build films are here


http://www.keepturningleft.co.uk/category/ktl-3-north-norfolk-and-the-wash/


the boat is light enough to car top

but the real duck punts are built heavy

Gavin Atkins

http://intheboatshed.net/

has doubts about the Pea Pod's stability

I am hoping that with my bulk reclining in the bottom of the boat it will be stable enough

my children keep on insisting that I have made a canoe!

Dan tribe has promied to loan me a rig from an Optimist

but he is a busy man

but if anyone else has a donor rig lurking in their garage

then I am very happy to swap all three KTL disks covering the Blackwater to the Broads for an old optimist rig

dylan.winter(at)virgin.net

Dylan
 
form stability

bedouin said:
I'm afraid I have to agree with Gavin Atkins. Punts rely very heavily on "form stability"
Click to expand...

not sure I get you

if duck punts rely on form stability then this one is fine as it has the same form as a duck punt

http://www.sailtheory.com/stability.html

http://www.johnsboatstuff.com/Articles/estimati.htm

however, my previous life time experience with being right is not a good one

and it highly likely that you and Atkins are correct and I am going to get wet

or will I?

we shall soon see

I will of course eat my humble pie in public

Dylan
 
Upside down from the transom, it does look disturbingly like a coffin! And I can see your kid's point, it does look similar proportions to a Canadian canoe.

With that relatively narrow beam, you may need an outrigger to sail it. I have a scruffy old windsurfer rig you could have, but it may be too big for that & I am in the West Midlands.
 
cheers S

Searush said:
Upside down from the transom, it does look disturbingly like a coffin! And I can see your kid's point, it does look similar proportions to a Canadian canoe.

With that relatively narrow beam, you may need an outrigger to sail it. I have a scruffy old windsurfer rig you could have, but it may be too big for that & I am in the West Midlands.
Click to expand...

have several windsurfer rigs here too

sailing children

too tall I reckon with the centre of effort too high

oppie rig v low

D
 
He's partly right about form stability - though in this narrow flattie there isn't much of it and it's the moveable, often low-down, ballast that makes it all work.

The secret of these little boats is their small sails, which a heavy and alert bloke can fairly easily balance in the puffs. That small sail is married to a slippery shape that moves pretty well despite the small sail. There's a lot to be said for it.

Keeping your weight low down is obviously good, but I think the benefits of reclining are two-edged. When a puff comes it'll likely be difficult to move if you're lying in the bottom of a narrow flat-bottomed boat not least because the side is in the way.

The guy in some of the pictures who seems to have fitted a bed-head to lean on has it right, I think - because his upper body is a bit more vertical, he's better equipped than most to move when he needs to do so, and so is probably better able to cope with stronger and more variable winds. I wonder whether he might even win races because of it, despite the added windage.

I've said it before elsewhere, but the big change I'd want to make is to add some built-in buoyancy, and that's particularly true of the stitch and glue plywood versions that some folks are talking about. Boats built to the Milgate plans have some timber in them, but a stitch and glue canoe without added buouyancy will float very low in the water, and will be even harder to self-rescue.

Gav
 
It's a canoe, whatever its lineage. Your family are right.

I think the Oppie rig is about perfectm btw.

In fairness, my point is that I have difficulty imagining how you will be able to film and sail simultaneously from such a tiddly platform. I don't suggest that you won't be able to sail the boat successfully. I'd like to try sailing one of these little boats myself; in reasonable conditions I'm sure I'd be fine.

Gavin
 
filming and sailing - no probs

I can film and sail at the same time

I have some experience

oar in one hand, mainsheet in my teeth, camera in the spare hand

as for self- resucueing

I plan on being close enough to the edge to drag it ashore to self rescue

I think that righting the thing while out of my depth will be a big ask

and I am also going to attach some fenders to the inside of the bow and stern as bouyancy

as for tea breaks

thems for wussies

ad-lib home brew is the stuff for me

I am planning to put a couple of 1 x 2 lengths along the bottom of the hull to protect it

is that a good idea - or not

Dylan
 
OK...

1by2s might affect the steering, and it could be difficult to deal with using only a small paddle. I'd have the bottom set up the same as the more successful Duck Punts to being with - if you can find out what that is.

Adding appendages will also increase wetted area. Who'd want to spoil those efficient Duck Punt lines anyway?

Gavin
 
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dylanwinter said:
not sure I get you

if duck punts rely on form stability then this one is fine as it has the same form as a duck punt

http://www.sailtheory.com/stability.html

http://www.johnsboatstuff.com/Articles/estimati.htm

however, my previous life time experience with being right is not a good one

and it highly likely that you and Atkins are correct and I am going to get wet

or will I?

we shall soon see

I will of course eat my humble pie in public

Dylan
Click to expand...

Having looked again, the bottom is wider than I had originally thought - I would suggest the stability will be very similar to that of a Canadian Canoe with similar beam/ That would suggest that it will be fine with you sitting in it - but standing could be a little hairy
 
righto

gmatkin said:
OK...

1by2s might affect the steering, and it could be difficult to deal with using only a small paddle. I'd have the bottom set up the same as the more successful Duck Punts to being with - if you can find out what that is.

Adding appendages will also increase wetted area. Who'd want to spoil those efficient Duck Punt lines anyway?

Gavin
Click to expand...

no runners then

it is just that retrofitting will be tough as I would have to remove all the paint

as for Bedouin and form stability - good man

standing up though...... good plan

I have seen the punters standing and paddling - might be fun on a hot day when getting wet would not be a bad thing

D
 
dylanwinter said:
I can film and sail at the same time

I have some experience

oar in one hand, mainsheet in my teeth, camera in the spare hand

as for self- resucueing

I plan on being close enough to the edge to drag it ashore to self rescue

I think that righting the thing while out of my depth will be a big ask

and I am also going to attach some fenders to the inside of the bow and stern as bouyancy

as for tea breaks

thems for wussies

ad-lib home brew is the stuff for me

I am planning to put a couple of 1 x 2 lengths along the bottom of the hull to protect it

is that a good idea - or not

Dylan
Click to expand...


I hope your camera is waterproof!
 
An Oppie rig is only really 2 poles & a blanket. Get a couple of 3m x 1" doweling lengths from B&Q or similar, make sure there are no joints/ knots in them & set something up. An old nylon flysheet would do for starters, ask around to see if anyone has a ripped tent (the zips often tend to go on cheap ones) & make up a 5'x6' oblong sail.

Cost is not likely to be over a tenner & an hour's work - so not important if you need to chuck it away & start again. Sew a pocket in the top corner for the sprit & fold the luff into a pocket for the mast. If the mast can swivel, you may get away with bolting the bottom of the sprit to the mast.
 
About 2yrs ago Son & I built a small "1 sheet of ply" boat for him to play with - though we cheated and used 2 sheets to give a little more freeboard. So, IIRR, it was about 3.5ft beam, 8ft long with a square transom and sharpie bow, free board abot 14 inches I think. Essentially half of yours.
Used a cut down Topper sail on a short ally windsurf mini-rig mast we had. The foot of the sail was simply screwed between 2 battens and cut off with a sharp knife - might do for yours??
We put pipe lagging over the gunwhale partly to protect our boat with it coming alogside, a little protection for elbows etc and a little bouyancy in case it swamped.
Painted outside with B&Q gloss.

It never tipped over - but son was very careful - & on a couple of occasions it took 2 people (probably 20 stone) without swamping.

Sailed "well" - downwind & reaching, don't think it ever went upwind.......
 
a chap called flo-mo

BAtoo said:
About 2yrs ago Son & I built a small "1 sheet of ply" boat for him to play with - though we cheated and used 2 sheets to give a little more freeboard. So, IIRR, it was about 3.5ft beam, 8ft long with a square transom and sharpie bow, free board abot 14 inches I think. Essentially half of yours.
Used a cut down Topper sail on a short ally windsurf mini-rig mast we had. The foot of the sail was simply screwed between 2 battens and cut off with a sharp knife - might do for yours??
We put pipe lagging over the gunwhale partly to protect our boat with it coming alogside, a little protection for elbows etc and a little bouyancy in case it swamped.
Painted outside with B&Q gloss.

It never tipped over - but son was very careful - & on a couple of occasions it took 2 people (probably 20 stone) without swamping.

Sailed "well" - downwind & reaching, don't think it ever went upwind.......
Click to expand...


a chap called flo-mo has come up with a two sheet design for the duck punt

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthr...-studies-and-paper-model.&highlight=duck+punt

so it is possible to make a boat that will sail to windward from two sheets

there are some great pix of punts in action here too

D
 
Not sure if this helps with regard to rig, but this is what I use:

6525800389_c8dddd7739_b.jpg


6525784313_db34f05d2f_b.jpg


All gear is stored in the boat to allow rowing and can be rigged single handed on the end of a mud weight:

Rowing setup:-

6525741883_69928e8d87_b.jpg


Mast up:-

6525753007_f6c88fc7ab_b.jpg


Rudder and treadle assembled:-

6525763359_f8d43394e0_b.jpg


Leeboards fitted:-

6525773605_dac2b662b8_b.jpg


Followed by the hoist.

With regard to stability, it is possible to walk all round the deck with ease; even kneeling within 6" of the stern does not feel in any way insecure.

Granted this is larger than the craft you have made, but I don't foresee any reduction in its inherent stability. The sail by the way was an off the shelf job and cost me £100 brand new. I had toyed with he idea of cutting down a Squib main, but it was so cheap I didn't bother in the end.
 
brilliant

121 said:
Not sure if this helps with regard to rig, but this is what I use:

6525800389_c8dddd7739_b.jpg


6525784313_db34f05d2f_b.jpg


All gear is stored in the boat to allow rowing and can be rigged single handed on the end of a mud weight:

Rowing setup:-

6525741883_69928e8d87_b.jpg


Mast up:-

6525753007_f6c88fc7ab_b.jpg


Rudder and treadle assembled:-

6525763359_f8d43394e0_b.jpg


Leeboards fitted:-

6525773605_dac2b662b8_b.jpg


Followed by the hoist.

With regard to stability, it is possible to walk all round the deck with ease; even kneeling within 6" of the stern does not feel in any way insecure.

Granted this is larger than the craft you have made, but I don't foresee any reduction in its inherent stability. The sail by the way was an off the shelf job and cost me £100 brand new. I had toyed with he idea of cutting down a Squib main, but it was so cheap I didn't bother in the end.
Click to expand...

brilliant,

few questions now

where did you buy the sail

what are its dimensions

what are the spars made from

what diameter are they

any chance of any close ups of the way it is rigged

dylan.winter(at)virgin.net

Dylan
 
Sail direct from Jeckells in Wroxham (Hoveton to be pedantic).

Dimensions: will have to unfurl again and measure, but the boat is 23' long and the mast I think 12' so that should give you some idea.

Mast is tubular sectional aluminium - from what, I know not because it came with my other Gun Punt - but I imagine not too difficult to find something similar on eBay.

Spars I made: Doug Fir from deck planking offcuts from my bigger project. Easy to make; 1.5" diameter (two bits 1.5" by 0.75" glued [epoxy] together). From raw to round in a day (if you remove the time for the glue to go off). I have some offcuts still if you want them...

If you want close ups, give me a list of which areas and I will try and get round to setting it up again. The rig is so, so simple to set up; I even have two strops on the boom to allow me to have a tall rig (so my wife can accompany me without decapitation) or a lower one for single handed or more blustery conditions.

The bit I'm most pleased with - believe it or not - is the attachement of the leeboard blades; captive cotter pins that belong on the back of a Land Rover tailgate, they self lock and tighten and can never get lost!!

The general concept was that everything must be able to breakdown and be stored within the confines of the cockpit or under the decks and still alllow 2 adults to lie down with their heads below the coaming. The rudder and treadle assembly is in 6 parts if I remember correctly but just takes 90 seconds to deploy
 
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