Dual purpose batteries or hybrid batteries?

[BabaYaga]

What advice ? i don't recall giving any in that post.

Whether explicit advice or not, anyone writing on a subject in which they have a professional background must be aware that other may see their contributions as especially reliable (not least when this background is so frequently referred to).
The OP to this thread obviously puts such confidence in you.

I found your rant (or whatever it was) in post #3 rather sweeping and potentially misleading. Feel free to go back to the thread that the OP refers to
Newbie needs answers about batteries ?
and reread your own post #8.
I have no objections to that. But apparently you have changed your mind since January?

 

[Chris_Robb]

There is such a thing as a dual purpose battery.

e.g.
XDC31MF Numax Leisure Battery 12V 105Ah

Somewhat lower CCA, but thicker plates, and hopefully better deep discharge characteristics.

In the blurb they refer to their large number of recyles.....BUT....they dont give any data. Smoke and mirrows I am afraid

 

[[2068]]

In the blurb they refer to their large number of recyles.....BUT....they dont give any data. Smoke and mirrows I am afraid

I'm puzzled as to why some people's first thought is that a manufacturer is either lying or being misleading about their products and that it's all smoke and mirrors.
It is possible there's a global conspiracy in play here.
It is also possible that they are actually different batteries.

Similar batteries here.
The DC leisure batteries have a higher CCA rating (800 CCA at 31 size, implies thinner plates) which make them more suitable as a starter battery.
The XDC leisure batteries have a lower CCA rating (650 CCA at 31 size, implies thicker plates) more suitable as dual purpose.

https://cdn.hankook-atlasbx.com/PRD...3451a848e7e5/HANKOOK_AtlasBX_small(final).pdf

 

[PaulRainbow]

I'm puzzled as to why some people's first thought is that a manufacturer is either lying or being misleading about their products and that it's all smoke and mirrors.
It is possible there's a global conspiracy in play here.
It is also possible that they are actually different batteries.

Similar batteries here.
The DC leisure batteries have a higher CCA rating (800 CCA at 31 size, implies thinner plates) which make them more suitable as a starter battery.
The XDC leisure batteries have a lower CCA rating (650 CCA at 31 size, implies thicker plates) more suitable as dual purpose.

https://cdn.hankook-atlasbx.com/PRD...3451a848e7e5/HANKOOK_AtlasBX_small(final).pdf

Can you explain how Numax made their 100ah battery with thicker plates, but it only weighs 0.1kg more than the standard one ? Have they invented a new form of lightweight lead ?

 

[PaulRainbow]

Whether explicit advice or not, anyone writing on a subject in which they have a professional background must be aware that other may see their contributions as especially reliable (not least when this background is so frequently referred to).
The OP to this thread obviously puts such confidence in you.

I found your rant (or whatever it was) in post #3 rather sweeping and potentially misleading. Feel free to go back to the thread that the OP refers to
Newbie needs answers about batteries ?
and reread your own post #8.
I have no objections to that. But apparently you have changed your mind since January?

Haven't changed my mind at all. I said:

You refer to "true leisure" batteries, what you should really be saying is "true deep cycle" batteries.

Starter batteries are for starting engines, cycling them will shorten their lives. a handful of 50% cycles will kill a car battery.

Leisure batteries normally quote CCA and AH and are, as you said, a compromise. The work well enough for average domestic needs and will withstand many more 50% cycles, but will last considerably longer of the DOD is reduced. They are also well suited to engine starting.

Deep cycle batteries are not designed for engine starting (these are the batteries you refer to in your first paragraph).

Nothing there that differs from post #3

As usual, you try to pick holes in whatever it is i say, you seem to like to provoke an argument. But hey, every forum needs the odd armchair expert or too.

 

[Humblebee]

Thanks all for the interesting comments. I'll look for a battery that quotes CCA and AH, at the moment the Hankooks mentioned by Paul are top of the list.
Golly, starting to look like an anchor thread with so many wide ranging opinions!

 

[Chris_Robb]

I'm puzzled as to why some people's first thought is that a manufacturer is either lying or being misleading about their products and that it's all smoke and mirrors.
It is possible there's a global conspiracy in play here.
It is also possible that they are actually different batteries.

Similar batteries here.
The DC leisure batteries have a higher CCA rating (800 CCA at 31 size, implies thinner plates) which make them more suitable as a starter battery.
The XDC leisure batteries have a lower CCA rating (650 CCA at 31 size, implies thicker plates) more suitable as dual purpose.

https://cdn.hankook-atlasbx.com/PRD...3451a848e7e5/HANKOOK_AtlasBX_small(final).pdf

If they make a claim, they should back it up. Bordering on sharp practice

 

[lw395]

...
The DC leisure batteries have a higher CCA rating (800 CCA at 31 size, implies thinner plates) which make them more suitable as a starter battery.
The XDC leisure batteries have a lower CCA rating (650 CCA at 31 size, implies thicker plates) more suitable as dual purpose.
...

Why do you think thinner plates have a higher CCA rating?

 

[[2068]]

Why do you think thinner plates have a higher CCA rating?

If you Google "thinner plates cca rating" you will get dozens of links.
I'm not making it up

"From an inside battery perspective, the more and thinner plates a battery has, the larger the Cold Cranking Amp is due to the greater surface area. The higher the Cold Cranking Amp (CCA) rating, the greater the starting power of your battery. "

 

[BabaYaga]

"Leisure" batteries are starter batteries

Starter batteries are for starting engines, cycling them will shorten their lives. a handful of 50% cycles will kill a car battery.

Leisure batteries normally quote CCA and AH and are, as you said, a compromise. The work well enough for average domestic needs and will withstand many more 50% cycles, but will last considerably longer of the DOD is reduced. They are also well suited to engine starting.

Well, let's say we leave to those interested to judge whether those two statements look compatible or not.

 

[[2068]]

The second statement I would agree with.
Compromised Leisure Batteries are a good choice for dual-purpose use in a boat.

 

[pvb]

Well, let's say we leave to those interested to judge whether those two statements look compatible or not.

They look perfectly compatible to me. "Leisure batteries are starter batteries" and " Leisure batteries .... are also well suited to engine starting". Why do you think that's incompatible?

 

[[2068]]

Because if I was choosing a battery purely for use as starter battery or the bow thruster, I would go for one with a high CCA as possible.
As I did when I replaced the bow thruster <<work of the devil, but necessary>> battery earlier in the year.

Leisure batteries tend to have slightly lower CCA ratings, slightly thicker plates, and will tolerate being discharged a little bit better than a starter battery.

The two are interchangeable, but there are differences, and you'll get better results if you closely match the battery to its intended use.

 

[rotrax]

Island Packet, a very well respected quality maker of leisure boats fit Lifeline AGM's as OE.

After owning two used models over the last twelve years I can support their choice by direct experience. No dedicated starter battery or dedicated house bank batteries, all the same.

Just saying.......................

 

[[2068]]

Lifeline AGM ... very nice.
Remind me again how much each battery costs?

Was it 3x or 4x the cost of a regular leisure battery?

 

[PaulRainbow]

Well, let's say we leave to those interested to judge whether those two statements look compatible or not.

No idea why you cannot grasp the point. In fact, i've no idea what your issue is.
Do you think leisure batteries are not starter batteries ?

 

[lw395]

If you Google "thinner plates cca rating" you will get dozens of links.
I'm not making it up

"From an inside battery perspective, the more and thinner plates a battery has, the larger the Cold Cranking Amp is due to the greater surface area. The higher the Cold Cranking Amp (CCA) rating, the greater the starting power of your battery. "

From that same interweb, you can get the knowledge that more and thinner plates also gives you more capacity...
So if you're comparing a car battery of a certain case size and Ah rating with a Leisure battery of the same size and Ah, the differences may be more subtle.
We should not get too hung up on CCA ratings, as we have absolutely no interest in operating at arctic temperatures. Which is (one reason) why vendors of serious deep cycle batteries don't specify it.

 

[[2068]]

Indeed, but the CCA rating is a good hint as to the nature of the thing you are buying.
A Trojan deep cycle battery will have a comparatively low CCA rating.

 

[BabaYaga]

No idea why you cannot grasp the point. In fact, i've no idea what your issue is.
Do you think leisure batteries are not starter batteries ?

As catergories, 'starter batteries' and 'leisure batteries' are not identical. They have different properties.
Who says so? You do.

In your post from January, quoted above, you claim that starter batteries are for starting engines and that a handful of 50 percent discharges will kill them.
Leisure batteries, on the other hand, 'work well enough for average domestic needs and will withstand many more 50 percent cycles'.
Obviously two different categories of batteries. (I broadly agree with this.)

Today you claim: Leisure batteries are starter batteries.

Clearly those two statements are not compatible.

Unless of course 'starter battery' in today's post has a different meaning compared to that in January? Perhaps you can explain what that meaning is?

 

[pvb]

It seems batteries are the new anchors....