Drying out in a Etap 22i -how well does she take to the ground?

[stibbles]

I'm thinking of buying a trailable sailer and looking at the Etap 22i. They look about as big as I'd be happy towing and I'm attracted by the 'unsinkability' - as well as the lines.

Can anyone tell me how well they take to the ground? I can see that the keel lifts to give a draft of 0.4m, but is that with a bulb sticking out much and if so do you have to watch what you dry out on/how much she tips?

I'm thinking mostly of drying on mud/gloop/sand around the Wash and Norfolk, which I'm guessing should be alright, but it'd be good to know how much of a problem a hard bottom would be, so to speak.

Cheers.

 

[Seajet]

Drying out any boat on hard sand regularly is not exactly going to improve her chances...

As I recall, the Etap 22 bulb does not fully retract ? It certainly didn't on the Etap 26, the keel stayed down some distance even when 'fully up'.

On soft mud she should be fine, the 22 may even settle upright, the 26 laid on her ear even in the very soft mud at my club, she wasn't there long before being sold on.

The 22 should do as well on a soft mooring as any boat, my 22' has a bulb about 9" deep below the hull, draft 2'3" when the keel is fully raised, and she settles completely upright in soft mud.

I'm glad you said 'trailable' though, not 'trailer-sailer', as 22' is pretty big to tow, let alone regularly.

However, if the trailability is so as to take her home for the winter, beware some important factors;

ALL lift keelers require maintenance to the keel plate, and this cannot happen if the boat is sitting on a trailer with the keel up.

Depending on the trailer and how handy you or chums are, it may well be possible to adapt the trailer to be able to lower the keel, by removing the tray the keel bulb rests on.

Keelboat style full width supports will be required, as the hull is not sitting on the keel like a fin keeler.

Trailer axles often run right under the keel area, but it may be possible to raise the boat instead, if the side steadies are on 'acros' and large area hull pads / cradles are fitted.

For this reason I keep my boat at my sailing club, on high trestles to allow lowering the keel - they're easy to make, and store flat when the steadies are removed, for transport or summer storage.

Other snags are corrosion of the trailer - a lot of people have their boats hoisted on and off trailers, to avoid immersing them in salt water - and storage of the trailer when you are not using it.

 

[stibbles]

Thank you, Seajet.

Yes, I was thinking more in and out and the start and end of the season plus maybe once more for a summer holiday rather than trailing every weekend (not that I would be allowed anyway!).

You points about keel maintenance noted.

To clarify, I meant in particular the 22i rather than the 22. There may well be a lot of similarities, but I note the draught (sp!) is quoted as different (less at 0.4m rather than 0.7m), so was hoping it might dry out better. For all the information on the web, I am struggling to get a clear picture of the 22i in 'keel up' mode.

The other serious contender at the moment is the Parker 21.

 

[Seajet]

Stibbles,

I realise by the sound of it you are looking at newer boats, but have you considered an Anderson 22, possibly a bit more boat, especially in a blow?

Yes I would say that, as I have had mine for 32 years and run the Owners Association.

I had a look at the Etap 22i as you'd piqued my curiosity, as you say hard to make out keel details but I did notice what seemed a surprising no. of keel maintenance worries on the owners site, probably not drastic.

For instance there's a transatlantic special A22 going at the moment which I've been aboard, and is restored to virtually as new...( I don't make a penny out of sales ! ).

Just a thought ! www.anderson22class.co.uk

 

[Sans Bateau]

Seajet is quite right when he says that the Etap will not take the ground, they never were design for that. The lifting keel was to provide reduced draft for recovering onto a trailer. However the bulb at the bottom of the keel provided excellent ballast making all the lift keel Etaps reasonably stiff without relying on form stability. Having said that our first boat an Etap 22 did sit on a drying mooring, but in a boat yard and she dried out against a post, with an arrangement of warps and snubbers to keep her upright.

If you are interested I have a copy of the original Etap 22i test, carried out by Dave Greenwell in 1992. If you PM your address I'd be happy to pop a copy in the post

 

[Seajet]

Blimey !

I'm sure it would be OK on soft stuff, but maybe not so encouraging.

Reminds me of the old Listang fin keeler, I was told they could not stand drying out on the keel even leaning against a wall !

 

[Inselaffe]

Hi

I have an Etap 22. It's not a 22i, but the min draft is 0.7m compared to what you say is 0.4m for the 22i, and since the hull forms are roughly similar I guess this means less keel and bulb sticking out when wound up. i.e I have a worser case I think

Mine stayed at Brightlingsea for a year on a drying mooring, lots of luverly mud so no problem. I also sailed it around the East Friesian islands for three or four years, and now upriver in Lisbon I often take the ground (to scrub off of course!). Once I set two anchors out to the sides as in photo, but normally dont bother.

When there is about 20cm or more soft mud, no problem, dries out level. If hard sand then dries at an uncomfortable 30 degrees, but no problems with water coming in or anything.

Had you thought about making some legs? Since the keel stub is so short when wound up these only have to be very short and will be stable. Also wound up the worm screw stainless screw is very short, so no problems with it buckling

Keel winding mech maintenance is easy but messy, just take of top cover, wind out screw, cover in graphite gunge and put back in.

Good to get a battery 17V drill, although the 320 turns keep you fit with the handle (not hard though)

Attached keel drawing for Etap 22 (Mk I, mine, a MkII has winch handle on side of tabernacle through gears). Pretty sure its almost the same for a 22i

She is very stiff, but the lack of initial form stability means she will heel first then set solid once the bulb is gets offset from the centreline. I have to reef cause she's not going well, not cause she's tipping over.

I have other info, if you want just pm me for email address

Bife

PS Foam also great for noise and heat insulation, no condensation!

 

[stibbles]

Stibbles,

I realise by the sound of it you are looking at newer boats, but have you considered an Anderson 22, possibly a bit more boat, especially in a blow?

Yes I would say that, as I have had mine for 32 years and run the Owners Association.

I had a look at the Etap 22i as you'd piqued my curiosity, as you say hard to make out keel details but I did notice what seemed a surprising no. of keel maintenance worries on the owners site, probably not drastic.

For instance there's a transatlantic special A22 going at the moment which I've been aboard, and is restored to virtually as new...( I don't make a penny out of sales ! ).

Just a thought ! www.anderson22class.co.uk

I have started looking at newer boats, but I'm open to different ideas. I do remember reading a review of the Anderson 22 in one of the boating mads a few years ago. I'll take a good look at your website.

Would I be right in thinking, though, that the keel on the Anderson lifts not right into the hull, so there would be the same issue about drying out on firmer ground?

Thanks for the suggestion, though.

 

[Seajet]

Stibbles,

yes both PBO and S*** Today have given the Anderson very good reviews.

Correct re. the keel, the ballast bulb stays on the outside; 3 advantages over the Etap,

It's designed for drying moorings

The keel raising mechanism is very simple, and new winches are available

The keel ballast bulb ( 900lb + 50lb plate ) is veed on top so as to fair in with the hull, so keeping out stones, drying mud etc

She settles upright in soft mud, but on a firm surface would heel at 20 degrees; I feel it overly cruel to bounce any boat on her bilges ( and keel ) on a firm bottom, and legs are a no-no for permanent use, OK in very calm weather if one is present - this goes for any boat in my view, the A22 is tough, but drying on hard sand even in ripples means a horrible pounding in any boat.

I'd like to think we have pretty good backup for the boat, most spares are available including new keels, and there is a very active class forum.

Ok, sales pitch over !

 

[Seajet]

Stibbles,

one thing I forgot to mention, boats with the keel completely retracting to give a flush bottom are no better off on hard sand etc, as they run the significant risk of holing the hull itself on a protruding stone etc; I've seen this happen when such a boat settled on a protruding mooring sinker.

Such keels will probably lack heavy ballast too, and it won't be in the perfect place for righting moment, ie on the end of the keel.

 

[Allan]

I had an Etap 22i for 6 years. The keel differs a little from the one above. It is more vertical. The bulb stays under the hull but right up against it. The lifting handle, or drill. goes into the mast base horizontally. I dried out many times, in mud it would stand up well but on hard sand laid over. As was said above, I used to worry about gelcoat damage when she laid over. I know it's not for everyone but, when I lived in France, I often used to trail her for a weekend sail. It was a great way to extend my sailing area. I made a few mods and used to easily be on the water less than an hour after arriving at the slipway.
Allan

 

[hrchivers]

ETAP

I had an etap23 for a few years; I had YachtLegs fitted so that it was possible to take the ground if necessary on hard sand (Bristol Channel).

This worked well enough, but as another poster has said, if you are not cautious the boat will take a pounding, and I certainly thought that was best avoided - on a couple of occassions I thought the swell was building too much and changed my mind about staying put.

Another issue is how fast the tide runs - if the water clears quickly any pounding will be limited.