Drying out as a foul weather tactic.
- Thread starter doug748
- Start date
Capt Popeye
Well-Known Member
Humm well boating, especially Yachting, appears to developed from those earlier years gone by, when beaching was the norm, ether a barge, or a merchant ship. Them Barges beached in the Thames Estuary to load Sand on the Sand Banks, and up-river to load / dig for peat etc. The Bawleys to transfer fish or set nets, then on the local ports to unload their fish, all quite a normal happening, then,
Most modern craft of the Yachting kind are perhaps designed /built to stay afloat on bouys or in a Marina, then taken out on a Hoist /Traveler and placed into a form of support / cradle to hold them up.
All in all a long way from the craft designed /built for beaching as the norm.
Most modern craft of the Yachting kind are perhaps designed /built to stay afloat on bouys or in a Marina, then taken out on a Hoist /Traveler and placed into a form of support / cradle to hold them up.
All in all a long way from the craft designed /built for beaching as the norm.
Seajet
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Even with their robustly built hulls - which were only expected to last 20 say years anyway ? - I doubt any sensible fisherman would have run his livelyhood ashore on hard sand if there was the chance of any waves .
Capt Popeye
Well-Known Member
Humm well one might think so, perhaps, but that sand in the Thames Estuary is very hard I can tell you, and the Thames Barges were beached to load the Sand by Shovel and Wheelbarrow, do not know what the loaded Barge load weighed but with the Wet Sand on board = quite a lot, eh ?
Seajet
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It doesn't matter what the boat & cargo weighs, it's how she settles, how she was built and uttermost the composition of the seabed
IE my old fin keeler was happy alongside a pontoon in soft mud, but would have been wrecked within a day if ashore on hard sand.
The old time working boats in Bristol Bay used to beach and use ladders to get the cargo off as part of their job, but I bet they didn't do it with a significant onshore breeze !
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Capt Popeye
Well-Known Member
It doesn't matter what the boat & cargo weighs, it's how she settles, how she was built and uttermost the composition of the seabed
IE my old fin keeler was happy alongside a pontoon in soft mud, but would have been wrecked within a day if ashore on hard sand.
The old time working boats in Bristol Bay used to beach and use ladders to get the cargo off as part of their job, but I bet they didn't do it with a significant onshore breeze !
Humm recall that I did comment that to-days Yachting craft are not designed /built with the same operational features as a lot of older craft, ie, the ability to take the ground when required, the reference to cargo weight was meant to indicate the design /build strength built into those earlier craft, which a regular commercial requirement was to take the ground, sure enough the modern Yachts flex a good bit and keels to part under some conditions, unfortunately, which reinforces my statement about some modern yachts not having the inbuilt capacity to take the ground, I think.
doug748
Well-Known Member
Well, not much enthusiasm for drying out as a storm tactic.
I hope our heroes in Kittiwake are going to use their shallow draft as an asset on their travels; it would make a much more interesting show than the usual run of sailing cineblog.
As the years pile up I look at boats like Southerlies and think how grand it would be the hole up at the head of drying harbours instead of rolling about with the scrum outside. Cheap too, which I like, a lot.
I hope our heroes in Kittiwake are going to use their shallow draft as an asset on their travels; it would make a much more interesting show than the usual run of sailing cineblog.
As the years pile up I look at boats like Southerlies and think how grand it would be the hole up at the head of drying harbours instead of rolling about with the scrum outside. Cheap too, which I like, a lot.
Poignard
Well-Known Member
What a silly, ill-informed remark.
Capt Popeye
Well-Known Member
Humm well just perhaps the proper use of an Anchor has been forgotten then, and maybe, along with that the style of a Anchor has changed according to craft use, etc.
Might say that if a GOOD emergency Anchor cannot be cast from the safety of the cockpit, only from the Bow end, then would suggest that good practice has indeed been forgotten.
Might suggest that anchoring by casting from the Bow can /should only be used when conditions are good /OK and not much threat from Wave action, Wind strength, Pitching /Rolling craft, etc etc, in those conditions Anchor casting from the safety of a cockpit is really essential, either by the skipper or the Crew.
[3889]
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Southerlies cheap? I think not.
oldmanofthehills
Well-Known Member
Which bit was ill informed? Or have you just woken in a bad mood?
My 30ft ketch uses a 12kg manson spade at bows and 7.5 bruce at stern (both with 50m chain or 20+30 warp) but many boats in the marina use 1Okg cqrs and they are worthless in kelp, boulders and shingle and not as good as the Bruce in mud so I must conclude that these marina based boats dont anchor for overnight stays particularly not in bad weather and thus suspect that many owners dont have great experience at anchoring or they would have changed their kit. I have no reason to believe that the poor fellow near Bognor was thus inexperienced, merely unfortunate and suffering the usual crew resource issue of the single handed sailor, whats more he hadn't intended to beach but had hoped to make safety
My 30ft ketch uses a 12kg manson spade at bows and 7.5 bruce at stern (both with 50m chain or 20+30 warp) but many boats in the marina use 1Okg cqrs and they are worthless in kelp, boulders and shingle and not as good as the Bruce in mud so I must conclude that these marina based boats dont anchor for overnight stays particularly not in bad weather and thus suspect that many owners dont have great experience at anchoring or they would have changed their kit. I have no reason to believe that the poor fellow near Bognor was thus inexperienced, merely unfortunate and suffering the usual crew resource issue of the single handed sailor, whats more he hadn't intended to beach but had hoped to make safety
doug748
Well-Known Member
I was thinking of keeping out of the grasp of marinas mainly.
Cheap is a relative term, I saw a 105 that I know sell for c 20k recently. This is probably a bit too small for the type:
http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/boats/m65717/m65717.htm
NealB
Well-Known Member
I think you are too dismissive: CQR's were considered THE anchor to have, until, maybe, 20 years ago.
I've spent many a night lying to one over several decades, including in some very, very strong winds.
oldmanofthehills
Well-Known Member
Read the anchor tests. CQRs perform very badly and dont auto-reset after they dislodge. Anyway 10kg is way too light for a CQR on a 30 footer. My 15kg CQR which was my original back up dragged more than my 7.5kg Bruce. It is unclear why CQRs ever had such a good reputation, but be that as it may many improvements have been made in the last 30 years:- The Orginal Bruces, Deltas, Mansons, Rocna. The Manson is a bit hard to stow and retrieve over my bow roller but I want to anchor safely in bad weather once beyond my beloved Upper Bristol Channel mud
http://www.yachtingmonthly.com/gear/choose-right-anchor-
29502http://rocna.cmpgroup.net/sites/default/files/downloads/press_0612_wm_ym_testing.pdf
http://www.yachtingmonthly.com/gear/choose-right-anchor-
29502http://rocna.cmpgroup.net/sites/default/files/downloads/press_0612_wm_ym_testing.pdf
Poignard
Well-Known Member
Oh well, I suppose you think you know best and my mere 20-years plus experience of anchoring perfectly reliably with a CQR counts for nothing.
The truth is, I haven't been paying sufficient attention to advertising blurbs and know-alls on forums and I hadn't realised my existing ground tackle is no good. I'm really lucky to have survived 20 years.
RupertW
Well-Known Member
I'm with you on this one. 12 lb CQR held a 24 footer fine many nights in strong winds for me and reset on change of tides every time. If anchor tests show CQR significantly worse then either anchor tests are even less like real life than we think (and they are pretty unrealistic) or normal forces on an anchor are less than a CQR can handle and very very much less than a modern anchor. So it's a bit like saying a 10 person lift is better than an 4 person one even if you are the only person in it.
oldmanofthehills
Well-Known Member
Being a bit technical a 31 footer has about 3 times the weight and 2 times the wetted area of a 24 footer so a 12kg on a 24 footer is a bit like a 24kg anchor on a 30 or 32 footer and 24 kg is getting unmanageable except with power windlass and also hard to stow.
I would be interested in what ground the CQR was used in successfully and in what bad weather?
As a Bristol channel sailor who has heard anchors dragging when waiting out a 3.5kt tide near moorings in the Carmathen River or sitting out a mere f7 blow in the Scillies, I now prefer security of anchoring. The extra cost of about £150 is small compared to my insurance excess and tiny compared to the life of my crew. Such good anchorage does need snubbers on the chain to ease shock loading in waves if the weather gets up (Stretchy rope snubber or giant rubber blocks). Sitting out a gusting F8 this summer was noisy but I slept soundly to a single anchor with only minimal anchor watch, and that was to worry about my anchor bitts and cleat.
Upper Bristol channel sailors whose anchors drag get rescued if possible, but those with inadequate gear get less sympathy.
I would be interested in what ground the CQR was used in successfully and in what bad weather?
As a Bristol channel sailor who has heard anchors dragging when waiting out a 3.5kt tide near moorings in the Carmathen River or sitting out a mere f7 blow in the Scillies, I now prefer security of anchoring. The extra cost of about £150 is small compared to my insurance excess and tiny compared to the life of my crew. Such good anchorage does need snubbers on the chain to ease shock loading in waves if the weather gets up (Stretchy rope snubber or giant rubber blocks). Sitting out a gusting F8 this summer was noisy but I slept soundly to a single anchor with only minimal anchor watch, and that was to worry about my anchor bitts and cleat.
Upper Bristol channel sailors whose anchors drag get rescued if possible, but those with inadequate gear get less sympathy.
NealB
Well-Known Member
I've used CQRs, on a number of different boats, since the early 60's.
This has included spells based in various places (east coast, Solent, Irish Sea, Tamar and Mediterranean).
It covers fairly prolonged 'liveaboard' periods of up to 18 months at a time, cruising fairly widely (including, believe it or not, the Bristol Channel).
It covers periods of up to three consecutive days riding out full gales.
I've rarely kept my boats in marinas, and favour anchoring.
My current boat has a 16Kg Kobra and a FX19 Fortress, but I could still sleep happily lying to a well set, appropriately sized CQR in sensible conditions.
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rptb1
Well-Known Member
Perhaps the original poster could tell us which anchor he used on this thread. It has failed to stop drift, and now the thread is dragging.
NealB
Well-Known Member
But we really love "which anchor?" threads!