Drying out as a foul weather tactic.

[doug748]

This interesting piece of film has already been discussed:

I got to pondering what I might have done here, with a strong wind forecast from the SW. I must admit that I have never liked the look of Watermill Cove, though Kittiwake has good gear and would have been snug enough if the weather had done what it was told.

With deep draught you have to bite the bullet but a cat can take the ground:

Would any experienced people have considered drying out off Bryher - very protected unless the wind went south?

I guess the fear is of big trouble in lifting off if the weather turns onshore. Any cat or bilge keel people like to comment?

 

[C08]

Pretty much a recipe for disaster if the weather direction turns. OK I suppose as a last ditch, short term solution to just run the boat ashore as tide turns to ebb but what about if the wind changes as the tide returns. Lifting and banging it probably would not stay intact until floating off and then there is the problem of not being driven further ashore although an anchor laid out seawards should stop that. Also in very strong winds getting off the beach is fraught with difficulty.

 

[Kelpie]

I think this would only be worthwhile in certain, rather contrived, circumstances. E.g. if it lets you sneak into a spot that is more out of the wind/waves, like a little drying harbour. Or if you are absolutely confident that it's a very short period of bad weather that will coincide with low tide.
I dry my boat out on legs regularly, but I never do it when there is bad weather coming. Too much chance of getting bounced on the bottom, or being swung during refloat owing to a wind shift (this is particularly unkind on beaching legs), or if I have laid a stern anchor to prevent swinging, then you are at risk of being broadside on to the wind.

 

[mainsail1]

I would have thought it is a very bad idea to try and run aground if strong winds are forecast. Swell always seems to curl around corners in heavy weather so you are at great risk of being holed in the hour or two when you are just floating.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

I have dried out on sand in a SW F5/6 off Bryher so drying out in a sheltered spot not an issue itself we but moved to more anchorage as the tide rose again in case it changed S overnight. Drying out as a technique to avoid bad weather seems unsound particularly for a cat without those big lumps of steel underneath to take any pounding

 

[Seajet]

As a low pressure system passes the wind direction changes massively so it's a very bad idea being just aground - unless maybe as a last ditch survival effort to save the people but not the boat.

In earlier editions of ' Heavy Weather Sailing ' ( I hope this is correct, it's from memory so anyone please say if not ) there is an account of the boat ' Tilly Twin - which had a buoyant, tumblehome type hull and long thin high aspect ratio keel, in trouble in a big onshore storm; her owner knew the area and drove her onto Bognor Regis beach, she went beam on as the keel hit but the crew were able to walk ashore.

This is absolutely not recommended, especially at Bognor as recent very sad news has shown ( seems a good bloke & boat, wrong place wrong time & rotten luck ).

The pounding a boat takes going aground on sand or firm ground even in tiny waves - riplets - is horrifying, so I'd only lift the keel and surf in as an absolute last resort to save the people.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

As a low pressure system passes the wind direction changes massively so it's a very bad idea being just aground - unless maybe as a last ditch survival effort to save the people but not the boat.

This is absolutely not recommended, especially at Bognor as recent very sad news has shown ( seems a good bloke & boat, wrong place wrong time & rotten luck )./QUOTE]

Well I will stick to my Bristol Channel and Irish Sea where rocky headlands mean floating safety can usually be found, and sometime even calm water. I think that by the time one decides to save the crew by wrecking the boat its probably too risky to run the boat onto a lee shore. I hadnt heard of the mishap at Bognor but the shingle there reminds me of the death trap of the Chesil Beach

 

[rptb1]

You'd want to be certain that the storm was going to pass in about six hours. And if it didn't — well, that could get nasty.

I'm much more careful about beaching when there's any wave action since this incident https://tammynorie.wordpress.com/2014/08/13/stranded/

 

[[3889]]

When I kept my Hunter 27 on an exposed mooring I use to dry out if bad weather was forcast but that was in a creek in a salt marsh with zero wave action and waist deep mud.

 

[BrianH]

As a low pressure system passes the wind direction changes massively so it's a very bad idea being just aground - unless maybe as a last ditch survival effort to save the people but not the boat.
[ .... ]
The pounding a boat takes going aground on sand or firm ground even in tiny waves - riplets - is horrifying, so I'd only lift the keel and surf in as an absolute last resort to save the people.

+1
Once visiting Scarborough crewing for a friend with a folkboat, we were lying against the wall near the harbour entrance on a falling tide. Repairing to SYC for light refreshment we returned much later when the yacht had settled on the bottom at low tide and turned in. In the early hours we were awakened by an almighty crash, the boat was beginning to lift and drop on the returning tide while at the same time a rising, on-shore wind was driving small waves through the narrow harbour entrance. The impact of the keel on just mud and sand was incredible, the mast shook violently at every impact. In the event, my friend removed the log transducer, flooded the boat until she settled hard again on the bottom until the water was high enough to pump out and float properly again.

Only in a totally confined area would I allow my boat to take the ground on a falling tide, there can be no knowing what the conditions will be like on the flood.

 

[Seajet]

+1
Once visiting Scarborough crewing for a friend with a folkboat, we were lying against the wall near the harbour entrance on a falling tide. Repairing to SYC for light refreshment we returned much later when the yacht had settled on the bottom at low tide and turned in. In the early hours we were awakened by an almighty crash, the boat was beginning to lift and drop on the returning tide while at the same time a rising, on-shore wind was driving small waves through the narrow harbour entrance. The impact of the keel on just mud and sand was incredible, the mast shook violently at every impact. In the event, my friend removed the log transducer, flooded the boat until she settled hard again on the bottom until the water was high enough to pump out and float properly again.

Only in a totally confined area would I allow my boat to take the ground on a falling tide, there can be no knowing what the conditions will be like on the flood.

I knew a couple of chancers who tried entering Chichester Bar at MLWS in a strong southerly wind, missed it ( pre GPS but in daylight ! ) in a 26' fin keeler - the seabed around there while technically sand is like granite; the crew later told me he'd watched the bilges flexing as the keel hit horribly on the trough of every swell.

They got away with that one of many accidents, I've sometimes wished my best for any poor sod who has that boat now.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

My boats have been drying out every for about 30 years foul weather or good, but in deep mud with some shelter from the creek banks at low tide . Very safe. Thats very different to drying out on a semi lee shore to escape a storm, where the risk of pounding onto hard ground and the great danger of broaching seems to make it most inadvisable.

 

[RupertW]

We did this many years ago in my father's wooden triple keeper in Wootton Creek when an 8-9 was forecast. The key things was that we were completely sheltered from the waves (although a half mile fetch raised surprisingly steep ones) and the mud was very soft. So we anchored up fore and aft an hour before high water just touching the mud bank. Forecast went up to Force 10 and we were there for 3 days - completely rested for 10 hours on the mud then 2 hours very anxious as we floated then 10 hours resting etc etc. I particularly remember the wooden floored Zodiac flying like a kite at the end of it's painter but we didn't want to be without an inflated boat just in case so tied it upside down to aft deck (it was a centre cockpit boat).

 

[Capt Popeye]

Humm well, if indeed it becomes necessary to beach a craft, tis always best to drop a good anchor out way before actually beaching or touching ground so that any broaching to can be controlled successfully and when time comes to go out again its very necessary to use the anchor to pull head to sea /water again so that heading into any waves for added safety.
Having said that best to turn the craft using an anchor so that when beaching the craft is actually facing the incoming waves so going stern ways to beach. Lying beached with a stern onto the waves I would suggest is not good practice, as probably the stern is not necessarily designed / weighted to accommodate rolling waves straight on.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

The poor fellow who accidentally beached and broached near Bognor couldnt set his anchor as his blown out foresail was flogging badly enough to cause injury or MOB.

If you could anchor and you had a decent anchor - not these silly CQRs on many marina based boats - then there would be little point in beaching anyway

 

[Capt Popeye]

The poor fellow who accidentally beached and broached near Bognor couldnt set his anchor as his blown out foresail was flogging badly enough to cause injury or MOB.

If you could anchor and you had a decent anchor - not these silly CQRs on many marina based boats - then there would be little point in beaching anyway

Humm well I grew up with the practice of casting a safety anchor from the mid ships position, letting the anchor go and falling back on the line as it payed out. In place was a line from Fwd to helm that a cast anchor line would slide along, so that as the craft is driven back wards the anchor line is taken fwd along the fwd line, the anchor line being made fast from the cockpit.
A bit Belt and Braces but surely quite safe, or as safe as can be in the circumstances.

The idea to me of going fwd to cast off an anchor (perhaps the only anchor) is a terrible ordeal, seems unnecessary and dangerous.

 

[Seajet]

If beaching just to save people and expecting the worst outcome for the boat, bows in would surely be the way to go due to the depth of the keel, rudder / skeg and keeping any possible control up to the last moment.

However I remember a VERY experienced sailor / lifeboat cox' saying " Never surf in ! " - it would be quite easy to be frightened witless - I have been - and think driving onto a beach is an easy way out, when in fact it would be suicide / murder as skipper; with a bit of grit and hopefully a mug of hot soup one can usually sail out of it in modern boats.

 

[Capt Popeye]

If beaching just to save people and expecting the worst outcome for the boat, bows in would surely be the way to go due to the depth of the keel, rudder / skeg and keeping any possible control up to the last moment.

However I remember a VERY experienced sailor / lifeboat cox' saying " Never surf in ! " - it would be quite easy to be frightened witless - I have been - and think driving onto a beach is an easy way out, when in fact it would be suicide / murder as skipper; with a bit of grit and hopefully a mug of hot soup one can usually sail out of it in modern boats.

Humm thats sure the trouble of those modern ill designed craft that one sees in them Marinas, as I understand them call them, them not really suited by design to be out in rough weathers at all, them designs best suited to 'fair day sailings', plus the wearing of frightfully coloured clothing and its obligatory to have taken an RYA course that so designed to give them courage to sail forth, knowing that that RNLI fellas, crewed by real sea men and boatmen are there waiting to rescue them, but maybe not their craft, ah well, such is life now

 

[John the kiwi]

Humm thats sure the trouble of those modern ill designed craft that one sees in them Marinas, as I understand them call them, them not really suited by design to be out in rough weathers at all, them designs best suited to 'fair day sailings', plus the wearing of frightfully coloured clothing and its obligatory to have taken an RYA course that so designed to give them courage to sail forth, knowing that that RNLI fellas, crewed by real sea men and boatmen are there waiting to rescue them, but maybe not their craft, ah well, such is life now

Are you absolutely sure you are Capt Popeye and not Captain Rum from Blackadder?
Quotes by Captain Rum:
"You have a woman's hand, milord! I'll wager these dainty pinkies never weighed anchor in a storm."
"Ha. -Aah! You have a woman's purse! I'll wager that purse has never been used as a rowing-boat. I'll wager it's never had sixteen shipwrecked mariners tossing in it."
"Your skin milord. I'll wager it ne'er felt the lash of a cat ['o' nine tails], been rubbed with salt, and then flayed off by a pirate chief to make fine stockings for his best cabin boy."

 

[Seajet]

This thread has gone all too abstract for me, though one phrase did remind of an ex-sailor ex - girlfriend...