Dry Lease / Bareboat of 22-24 mtr

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Ponderous

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Hiya,

So after some thoughts please without too much bashing....

I’m wanting to establish a new seasonal holiday accommodation/ cruising / charter operation ( skippered charter) not renting berths out - full boat charter only - with ideally something like a 22-24 mtr Fairline/Princess/Sunseeker here in UK - however as this would be a new venture I don’t really want to go and buy a new/used vessel of this size until the viability of the project is proven.

I’m commercially endorsed yachtmaster power and wifey is a super yacht chef - the vessel will not really do any sea miles per se and we would run it as a husband/wife team from April to October...

But the ability to bareboat a vessel fo this size or even lease for a season seems like its not been done before....

What I’m trying to avoid is buying the boat to test the market - which is all down to marketing, pricing and the like..

Open to suggestions or thoughts please - clearly needs to be coded and nice with tender / SUP’s etc

Let me know

Cheers

Justin
 
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I would have thought most owners would want some usage during that period themselves.
Having said that inevitably there will be some , a few that what ever reason ( health , temporary money issues , personal etc ) might be unable or willing to forfeit a season so a cash injection will be welcome.
Then there’s maintenance and repairs bit like a landlord with property.But not quite an identical scenario as it’s easy to bust stuff on a boat .The bigger the easier and more of it .
Eg toilet system knackered either a motor on a bowl or deep blocked pipe or motor on the tank .
Landlord with a house ,the agent just sends a plumber a cheap ball cock fix .
A boat is hugely different and expensive in comparison.
Gel coat dink’s soft furnishings marked etc etc .
All doable fix wise but expensive compared to a house .
So to make it worth wile so the owners not out of pocket he’s gonna need a significant wad / month or season .
The hard up guy was probably thinking having a dormant season , and not wanting to use the word neglect- defer maintenance until funds permit? just cover the insurance and berth .That boat may well be suffering from “ deferred maintenance “:from previous seasons so not exactly a minter .
Thats another extra bill for him chater insurance , plus coding ( if not already done ) on top .
But now he needs to find more extra £ to service the machinery , lift n antifoul, polish etc etc .
Sort of cash flow issues , your offer of rent / season better be good !
A hard up guy is likely to have listed it as well and you are asking him to not to sell it bag the cash and free himself , but spend money on it he hasn’t got ?

Instead offer him money .Fine but that money is gonna need to be worth his while .
I can’t see your maths stacking up if you then sub rent the rooms / boat on a holiday basis in the U.K.

Which means it’s not worth your while after you factor in his rent .

A minted newish fully coded recent example may already be charted by professionals say 6+ weeks around the owners usage so best of both worlds in terms of offsetting some running costs .

Remember any profit on the seasonal charter/ rental is income so it’s gonna at some stage wind up on the owners tax return .

Just trying to see from an owners perspective where the incentive is coming from to do as you ask , and keep it low enough for you to make a go of it ??

I,am not seeing it but others may?
 
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Hey Portofino,

Many thanks for the info, I think we would definitely make it worth the owners while as long as the boat was ok and would expect them to earn about 10k per month from it for the 6 months, so 60k for the season - ideally with a purchase at the end of the season if the boat was decent, so a bareboat charter / purchase type thing would work.

The same as aircraft we would be responsible for what would be called ‘line maintenance’ - so the servicing and minor issues that always happen, and I am also a marine engineer so happy with most things - I have certainly had macerators go because kids thought Lego was meant to be stored in the toilet, etc - it is full boat charter for the week - same as med program - not renting rooms etc... that’s a mugs game and fine for the marina but not in a holiday destination.

Thanks again for the reply

J
 
As Porto says I can’t see this working financially.

You seem to be proposing renting out rooms on a boat that you yourself are chartering. The gulf between what you will pay and the punter will pay I can’t see being in your favour.

A room on a boat that does not move. £100-£150 a night ?? Your charter fee £3000 a day ? That ignores mooring fees etc. A new 22m boat will be £2m plus. Someone might charter to you for less if it is not moving but I can’t really see the benefit to the owner.
 
Hi Jrudge,

Just to confirm, this is for skippered charter same as Med definitely not renting out berths tied up in a marina.... beds onboard do that type of thing and I have no interest in that... it is a skippered charter program for the season.

Cheers

J
 
Without giving all the details away - should be less than 1000 sea miles in total for the season, lots and lots of time at anchor or on a private buoy - more or less most of the time in displacement and not planing. Tender will be worked hard though and used everyday..

Cheers

J
 
So.....in a nut shell, you want to charter a boat from an owner for £10k per month and then sub charter it to paying customers in the hopes of making more than 10k per month after costs....in the UK.

If the boat has a major mechanical issue tomorrow ....who’s responsible for repairs, refunding the paying customer as they can’t have their holiday etc.... that’s just one thought.
 
Chartering a 22m boat will cost you more like £30k per week so I doubt you will be able to charter one for £10k per month! :rolleyes::eek:
 
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petem said:
Yeah but taking one for the whole year would result Inna big discount.
Click to expand...

He want's it for 6 months Pete, just the usable part of the year not the whole year. Even at 20k (33% discount) per week that's still not 10k per month for the owner.
 
Yes chartering one for 30k a week is fully crewed with all expenses paid as we have done in the med often - that is not a bareboat rate, and not a rate that the owner gets irrespective of whether clients are onboard or not... as for repairs - no different to being an owner - if its a major issue - ie engine or gearbox blows then its for the owners account and they will be insured accordingly - if its a minor issue, then its for the lessee’s account - ie if the management co cancels the charter then its up to them to repay - now the owner etc - the owner is just saying here is my boat - it is insured, it is coded, it was serviced then by these - you give me x per month for a guaranteed 6 months - and all other expenses are yours...

It’s no different to how it works for private jets, helicopters etc and many of the owners or 20+mtr boats are typically use to this scenario and method of operating..

Without giving a full blown business plan which clearly no one would do on a forum, my question, however badly delivered was to gauge knowledge if anyone has done in the UK what is normal and typical in the Med - ie give your boat to a management co and they earn a decent income / offset towards ownership for you..... trouble is we want it for a full 6 month term without any interruption - its looking like the only way is to buy to prove......... :)
 
And there is not many coded charter boats in the UK that return the owners 10k pcm clear guaranteed for the summer season... that much I do know.. I’ve been a charter skipper on the Solent for years and other than the prime weeks the charter work is not exactly steady.....
 
Ponderous said:
And there is not many coded charter boats in the UK that return the owners 10k pcm clear guaranteed for the summer season... that much I do know.. I’ve been a charter skipper on the Solent for years and other than the prime weeks the charter work is not exactly steady.....
Click to expand...

So you are answering your own question.
 
Ponderous said:
Yes chartering one for 30k a week is fully crewed with all expenses paid as we have done in the med often - that is not a bareboat rate, and not a rate that the owner gets irrespective of whether clients are onboard or not... as for repairs - no different to being an owner - if its a major issue - ie engine or gearbox blows then its for the owners account and they will be insured accordingly - if its a minor issue, then its for the lessee’s account - ie if the management co cancels the charter then its up to them to repay - now the owner etc - the owner is just saying here is my boat - it is insured, it is coded, it was serviced then by these - you give me x per month for a guaranteed 6 months - and all other expenses are yours...

It’s no different to how it works for private jets, helicopters etc and many of the owners or 20+mtr boats are typically use to this scenario and method of operating..

Without giving a full blown business plan which clearly no one would do on a forum, my question, however badly delivered was to gauge knowledge if anyone has done in the UK what is normal and typical in the Med - ie give your boat to a management co and they earn a decent income / offset towards ownership for you..... trouble is we want it for a full 6 month term without any interruption - its looking like the only way is to buy to prove......... :)
Click to expand...

No I have to disagree, all expenses are not included. Take Boats.uk's Prinny 72 (22m) that's 30k per wk. summer and £24k winter with 2 crew and nothing included other than soft drinks. That's in Mallorca granted. Sunseeker Manhattan 60 (19m) in the Solent 4K per day with 2 crew and I doubt that's all inclusive either. I honestly cannot see you being able to charter a 22m coded bare boat (if they exist i the UK) for 10k per month!

Your idea does not work that way for private jets and helicopters in the slightest. They are governed by strict maintenance schedules by law. Most will be on a management plan with the company and would be included with the lease or charter cost. Think of it like renting a car.

Anyway, good luck and I hope you succeed. :)
 
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I am very familiar with the private jet & helicopter industry and managing them, however when you remove the berthing fee, crewing fee, and lots of other things if you were with Sunseeker charters etc then they don’t actually get much more especially if you were comparing a 2008-2010 Fairline 78 etc. -what I’m not talking about for what I should have made clear is a 2015+ vessel where the asset cost will be circa 1.5-2 mill for the equivalent - anyhow - no worries thanks everyone - pretty sure we’ll just have to buy one and make it work... cheers
 
An accountant once advised me it’s different to make a what amounts to a hobby pay .
The bigger the numbers the less chance of return and harder it hurts .
So selling Chelsea flower show quality chrysanthemums at your garden gate with a T/O of [ insert your figure ] isn’t gonna take over the day job .
Nor is renting am allotment and growing huge numbers.

The thing is using £2m as capital outlay with say a bank wanting 40 % deposit that’s a loan of £1.2 M
There will be a return required and a write down time on that loan .
You have already said you are after a 4 y old boat .
So imagine being in the game when it’s say 14 , a 10 yr pay back £120 K pa ,plus interest .
Also as you are now the owner the whole running inc annual berthing drops on you for 12/12 . + extra wear n tear on carpets etc .
Unlike property ( collateral) the boats gonna dive value wise in 10 y or 5 or what ever ? It could be worth less in a few years than the loan outstanding.
So the lender may want collateral or even a bigger deposit ? Or silly interest .

And if you have a spare £2 M of your own capital , then “ investing “ in floating plastic is silly compared to 10 units of £200 K BTL spread out in nice areas in the U.K.

The difference is BTL is not one of your hobbies.
So already it’s on the right side of investment according to my accountant.

While the BTL ,s are earning you hard cash and appreciating the £2M in bricks and mortar..
In the 10 or 5 year interval you and your wife should work your 8ollocks off as employees in the Yacht industry, leave the BTL portfolio simmering nicely.
Thought about retiring? Ever ?

Most on here buy boats without any loans out of disposable income and run them like wise .Can just walk away and forget getting on with other stuff in life .

So a typical 24 M bloke isn’t geared or needs a return .
The boats just a hobby .Ok the numbers of 24 M are greater than a 24 foot but the basic cost / buying scenario is identical, it’s just a matter of scale .

I wish you well but with your qualifications and experience and access to £2m there’s better ways to deploy that cash imho .
 
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