Droopy CJ Marine Sprayhood - advice?

[VicS]

I purchased my CJ marine sprayhood at considerable cost in 2013s Southampton boatshow with promises that it would be an easy DIY fit - two years later I have finally stopped going sailing for five minutes to fit it, predictably, there is a problem.

When pulled back tight, the front is slightly droopy - the photo below doesn't change much when I put all my weight behind it.



CJ (who I hold in high regard) insist that pulling it back tight and pulling down hard on the side bullet fixings will sort it out and tension it up nicely. Should I just pull harder? Leave it up and hope it stretches out? Or just live with a baggy sprayhood and hope it stretches out over time?

CJ offered to come and take a look at how I've fitted it and offer first hand advice at the cost of £650 (with the proviso if the sprayhood is cut wrong, that would be refunded and they would fix the sprayhood), which I did resent somewhat and I didn't want to risk on account that I might have ballsed up the install... anyone had similar droopy problems...?

]Hi I'm in Chatham on Monday and can have a FOC look for you to see if it's incorrect fit ?
Cindy[/SIZE]

]Take Cindy up on that offer! If you haven't come across Wilkinson Sails before do a forum search, she really knows her canvas.[/SIZE]

C & J used to be very very good and at attractive prices. The best fitting spray hood I think I have seen was a C&J one.

It is however a mistake I am sure not to have spray hoods fitted by the makers . The person I sailed with had a new on made ( I forget who by) for his existing frame, which he refurbished. It was ( is) a disaster. He realised, too late that DIY fitting was a mistake.

I agree you should take Cindy up on her offer and if she thinks she can fix it splash the necessary cash and get her to do it.

 

[prv]

It is however a mistake I am sure not to have spray hoods fitted by the makers.

In the end they came and fitted ours, took it away for some modifications, and re-fitted it.

They used silicone to seal the various fittings screwed to the deck, which I wasn't very impressed with.

Pete

 

[MagicalArmchair]

Thanks for all the advice. I tried a multitude of things to try and sort out the sprayhood yesterday, moving the hinge both up and down had no effect on the 'droop', and all that pulling on the side flaps did was give a 'V' effect on the front panel. Next I tried applying more pressure with ropes aft from the frame and then string down to the gib sheet track, and even with these tensioned in multiple different dimensions, it had little effect.

Am I expecting too much? Is the above acceptable when bar tight?

Thank you Cindy, since you made the cover for my late fathers 1930s gaff cutter, Wanda, I have been a great fan of Wilkinsons sails - it was half the price quoted by CJ and it was a piece of art, so much thought and craftsmanship went into it. I'll give you a call tomorrow!

(the image is the only one of the cover I could find in a hurry, copyright Suzanne of boatshed)

 

[horatio_nelson]

I got a new C&J spray hood recently - they cut it to the patterns they already had, when I collected it they gave me a tool for punching out the eye-holes for fitting. I got it back to the boat, had a look and decided not to attempt if myself. For £100 they came to the boat and did all the fitting - no baggy bits, fits perfectly and looks great.

There's a guy there called Adrian Moss who was very helpful.

 

[theoldsalt]

MagicalArmchair,

Looking at your latest photos it appears that the hoops are too straight across the tops. I think the spray hood may have been cut for hoops that are curved.

I know from personal experience on my boat that every few years I need to re-establish a curve in my hoops by raising them in the middle otherwise the hood starts to sag. The curve across the top of the hoops can be caused by letting the boom rest on them or just leaning on them occasionally.

 

[Giblets]

There's something not right with the rear two hoops IMO. The following is a pic of our new sprayhood recently supplied & fitted by CJ Marine. Sorry it's a bit dark but we also had the full cockpit canopy as well. Your white plastic grab rail brackets look like they are in the wrong place. I also wonder if you have got the two hoops transposed as our grab rail is fitted to the next hoop which attaches to the coach roof fittings rather than yours which appears to have the grab rail section fitted to the c/r fittings. Should the rear two hoop assembly be turned round so the port side becomes the starboard side?

 

[l'escargot]

...I also wonder if you have got the two hoops transposed as our grab rail is fitted to the next hoop which attaches to the coach roof fittings rather than yours which appears to have the grab rail section fitted to the c/r fittings. Should the rear two hoop assembly be turned round so the port side becomes the starboard side?

That is how the frame on my sprayhood is - the supporting frame that is fixed to the coach roof is forward of the half frame that is fixed to it that supports the aft edge of the sprayhood.

 

[JClarkes]

I have just been approached by this company to sell pre made sprayhoods. I have a friend who makes canopies so I declined plus I shall stick to the fasteners only.

I could never sell a sprayhood that has been made from a template from another boat. Even if it is the same make and model of boat it all depends where you place your deck hinges, and how you bend the framework.

In this picture the framework should be more curved along the top. If it hadnt already started sagging it sure would with heavy rain or snow sitting on it in the near future Then you pretty much need a new cover.


If you pull back on the grab bar does it tighten any??
If you move the clamp up the tube slightly on both sides then pull back on the grab bar does it tighten?
Lastly, which may be a bit of work, but if you were to change the two bars around having the bar attached to the deck hinges at the front and then the bar attached to the grab bar of the clamps would it change it any?
Last suggestion which would require two friends, but take the bars of the deck hinges and get a couple of friends to act as deck hinges and hold the bar ends in a few other places and see if you were to reposition the deck hinges if it would help??

It normally is the bar attached to the deck hinge to the back nearest the grab bar and the front bar of the clamps.

 

[JClarkes]

Thanks for all the advice. I tried a multitude of things to try and sort out the sprayhood yesterday, moving the hinge both up and down had no effect on the 'droop', and all that pulling on the side flaps did was give a 'V' effect on the front panel. Next I tried applying more pressure with ropes aft from the frame and then string down to the gib sheet track, and even with these tensioned in multiple different dimensions, it had little effect.

Am I expecting too much? Is the above acceptable when bar tight?

All canopies should be tight like a drum. If not then you will get water sagging, wind damage etc...

 

[Daydream believer]

Make 2 pieces of wood with a "V" cut in each end then force one between the deck & first bar & the other between first & second bar to pull the whole thing out tight
line them up with the centre join in the screen

 

[sailaboutvic]

Two suggestion
1.. Take had many photo has you can , maybe a video and send it to CJ and ask them what they think .
2 .... Ask a local sail maker to take a look and if it has been made wrong give them the option of coming and sorting it out or paying the cost of someone else to sort it out .
You have good money for it and unless it is your fault , it down to them to sort out , no matter how good other on here say they are .
After service for company seen to be getting worst and worst .

 

[MagicalArmchair]

Hello Giblets, the plastic grab handle connectors are not yet drilled as it wasn't clear where these should go - I was trying to attach them at a point where I didn't need to drill through the material itself, however, I see in your picture, the fitters of yours have done just that, which is fine and makes sense, so when the 'bagginess' is resolved, I'll fit the grab handle as you have yours. As for reversing the poles, around the other way I don't think the poles will fit at all . Thanks for posting that photo - very helpful. I am planning to write this all up on my website to help others keen to do a DIY install as I could find very little on t'internet to assist.

Thanks horatio_nelson, I wish I had been quoted £100, I would have paid that for sure! Its a cracking hood, just wish I could make it fit. I've emailed CJ again so I'll see what they say and I'll call Cindy after I hear back from CJ.

JClarkes, I tried 'repositioning' the feet, thinking that moving it back would help (my two friends being replaced by copious amounts of gaffa tape), this didn't help at all unfortunately.

Daydream believer and theoldsalt, I'll see what CJ and failing that, Wilkinsons suggest first - the stainless is very good quality and will be pretty tough to bend.

What an awesome community this is, thanks for the assistance all.

 

[Matelot Joe]

Where the two hoops join can the hinge be moved up the tube? it can on mine. If you slide the hinge up the tube it might be possible to tension the canopy

I was going to say the same, this does work to some extent and worth a try.

 

[MagicalArmchair]

Thanks Matelot Joe, tried that to no avail . CJ have asked for more photos of the side of the sprayhood whilst up, ho hum, I'll grab those next weekend and lets see what they respond with. They did repeat their offer of coming to take a look for £650, and then refunding that money if their cover was found to be in error...

 

[Matelot Joe]

Thanks Matelot Joe, tried that to no avail . CJ have asked for more photos of the side of the sprayhood whilst up, ho hum, I'll grab those next weekend and lets see what they respond with. They did repeat their offer of coming to take a look for £650, and then refunding that money if their cover was found to be in error...

I would have thought that they could do better than that as well as ask for a deposit of that amount, it shows lack of customer care in my book and for a company that has by all accounts, a good name.

 

[neilf39]

Another thought. How did you determine where the feet of the main bar should go? If the pivot points on the deck were moved a couple of inches forward that would force the front bar up and forward and the rear bar slightly forward. Try unbolting them from the deck and sliding the feet forward and also adjusting the front bar up and down as well.

 

[MagicalArmchair]

Matelot Joe, they do have a good name and I had good experience with them, hence I paid a premium to have one made by CJ (I could have gone direct to Albin Marin in Sweden and got the whole lot for hundreds cheaper) - I am slightly puzzled by their attitude. If they have time to drop leaflets in peoples cockpits, you would think they would have time, when they were next in the area, to agree to help a customer and come and have a look, suck their teeth at me and either A: Put me right on how I have cocked up the fitting or B: Put right any gaff in the construction of the hood. To be fair to CJ, I reiterate the product is very good, the stainless work in exceptional, and the construction of the hood is good, and via email Darren has been very helpful at CJ... that has not helped correct my hood though or excused the customer services gaff of demanding another £650 to take a look.

The cavalry visited yesterday though, the great Cindy of Wilkinson's sails has taken a look FOC. What amazing, human, helpful customer service with no promise of pay or reward. I think we can all guess who will be getting my business in future...

edit: And neilf39, that would be a good thing to try - I tried simulating moving the feet BACK, however, I never tried moving them forward! I'll see what Cindy has to say...

 

[KevB]

From CJ's point of view they are based on the south coast so a return journey to chatham is 4 hours plus the time spent on your boat and time is money. Not sure why they should be expected to do that if the cockup is yours. If you are certain you have done everything correctly what have you got to lose by agreeing their fee, after all... you'll get it back when you prove to be correct?

 

[MagicalArmchair]

Well, thanks to Cindy of Wilkinsons (http://wilkinsonsails.co.uk/ - a shameless plug for them, they really have been very helpful), the sprayhood now looks awesome. I believe she bent the front bar up in the middle and that had the effect of tightening that baggy front panel. She suggests there are some other bits which need doing to get it 100% and she has given me a (really very reasonable) quote to do those that I have accepted.

I've completed a draft write up here (http://www.albinballad.co.uk/technology/cj-marine-sprayhood/) as when fitting the hood I found it hard to gather all the facts (little things, that seem obvious once done, but when fitting for the first time have an element of doubt. Such as which way is "up" for the bolt rope track, which way to orient the Universal Deck fittings, that sort of thing), so hopefully it may help someone else.

The hood looks amazing, the construction is a credit to CJ, just a shame it didn't quite fit without an expert hand.