Drilling screws out

[pugwash]

I've got a number of immoveable screws to deal with, most of them in hinges. I tried to drill one out and got rid of the head easily, leaving just a spike inside. But the drill-bit simply skids around it and dives into the wood. Is there any trick I should know about? Or do I have to fill the holes and move every hinge? Grateful for any useful tips.

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[tcm]

Re: Not drilling screws out

very difficult with a hand drill - easier with a proper jig-mounted drill. It might work if you centrepunch the existing bit of screw. Keep the drill bit short (less flexible) and actually wear saftey glasses cos there is a good chance of drillbit breakage. I bet this won't work.

If/when this doesn't work - don't move the hinge cos the cutout/recesses for the hinges will make a right mess. Simply drill and c'sink new holes in the existing hinges, perhaps two either side, depends how much space there is.

Before fixing, praps open up the old unuseable hole in the hinge so there aren't any spare old countersunk holes and an obvious bodge, but seem like erm purpose-made lightweight hinges, and make good underneath (smooth and black paint). Or, cut off the heads of new screws and glue them in the holes - but this may look a bit bodgy with too many screws in the hinge. Drill the new hinges holes exactly - centre punch first. Perhaps set them diagonally to avoid splitting the wood underneath (and also to make it less nec. to gettem exactly in line)

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[steve_cronin]

It\'s the knack as you need!

I was talking with a true time served motor engineer - NO NOT a MECHANIC or a FITTER - a week or two ago about the lack of basic techniques to be found in the repertoire of his younger colleagues nowadays. Not time-served myself but taught at my father(who was)'s knee


Few knew that the best way to start to try to undo rusted in screws is to give them a deep and heavy tap to jarr the threads loose (don't overdo it with a steel screw into an aluminium casting though!). This needs to be done with a drift or a punch of some sort and the work backed up with some sort of block to stop it moving and reflect the shock. Also it is not commonly known that you need to tighten the screw a little further first before trying to undo it. Even then after this, a gradual rocking too and fro of the part defeated screw, gradually increasing the amplitude will eventually put you in a position where you can retrieve the screw or allow sufficient head to be revealed to attach a pair of molegrips - severely tightened - so that the rocking can be continued until you eventually defeat the recalcitrant lesser being.

Above all, maintain the intellectual superiority over the workpiece by continually telling it AND yourself that eventually you will succeed over this inanimate object devoid of the slightest intelligence because you are employing the guile and resourcefulness of the planet's dominant species adapted and refined over thousands of years of artesanal activity. Sort of "Mind over matter"!

Steve Cronin

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[burgundyben]

what is the screw in? If its wood, then get a 1/4 inch chisel, chisel away around the screw until you can get snipe nose pliers or better snipe nose mole grips onto the end of the screw to get it out, then drill the hole say to 8mm, epoxy glue in a wood plug and then re-drill fresh hole, dont be tempted to just fill with epoxy cos the drill will slide off this into the wood.

If its into GRP then I'm not the man to help.

<hr width=100% size=1>Sod the Healey - I think I'll buy an E-Type.

 

[VicS]

Re: It\'s the knack as you need!

Also use the correct size of screw driver (not one that's too small) and one that's properly ground, with nice square edges, not one of those things all rounded off like you see all too often that'll cam out of the slot wrecking it as it does so.

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple>Ne te confundant illegitimi.</font color=purple>

 

[AndrewB]

An impact driver is really good.

Delivers the shock and the twist. I agree with tightening slightly first.

I generally manage to get out screws in wood and grp, but would really appreciate tips on seized S/S screws in aluminium. Usually the heads break off sooner than the screw come loose.

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[pugwash]

Mind over matter

Steve, you're a philosopher. I never thought a question about screws would produce a lesson for living one's life. "Maintain intellectual superiority over the workpiece..." Indeed! Wonderful stuff. I'll frame it over my workbench.

To the mundane. The screws are small and go into thin wood (cabin lockers) so there's not much room to play with. I tried nearly all the things described here. Hammered the screw driver (didn't think to use a punch though), tried to tighten first, tried to rock it but the plywood itself is a little bendy, used a good square screwdriver, and so on. Came to the conclusion I could drill new screw-holes but didn't think of staggering them.

Thanks one and all for good advice. Could the "inanimate object devoid of the slightest intelligence" be aware that I am deploying "the guile and resourcefulness of the planet's dominant species" -- ie, PBO posters? Sure hope so. It will give up on the spot.

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[Paul_H]

Use a tube drill which just fits over the offending screw. Such a tool can be made from a piece of steel tube of suitable dia. with a few teeth filed on the end. Drill down until the screw can be pulled out with a pair of needle nose pliers. This will leave a neat hole which can then filled. If its wood then glue in a cross grain plug using poxy mixed with celulose fibres. Dont use dowel cos the grain is lengthwise and will cause a split when the new screws are fitted. Ideal if you can find tubes that fit one inside the other then you can make a plug cutter as well. Otherwise the plug will need to be sawn and sanded to fit by hand. If its GRP then simply fill with poxy + celulose fibres. Another method is to use a 2mm drill all around screw then clean hole with suitable drill but its easy to break such a small drill.

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[Guest]

an engineer has a university degree

a time served what ever served an apprenticeship of at least 4 yrs or 5yrs if you are older then me.
we like to call ourselves engineers but until you have that degree you aint.
my one regret in life is that i didnt get a degree in engineering.
i was a fitter, time served for 4 yrs, so am a time served fitter, my speciality became diesels and i ended up being in charge of maintenance facilities in places like africa and the middle east,
a motor mechanic nowadays is as clever as the next guy, and is not to be looked down upon and in all probability has done an apprenticeship as well. the old fart that you were talking to in all probability wouldnt know what to do with a computer but i bet the young whippersnappers that he is talking about use them everday of their lives to plug into the the electronic diagnostics that are on every vehicule nowadays. times change and yes it is a pity when old skills are lost, but you can put the blame for that on the teaching institutions that are failing our kids.
stu

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[steve_cronin]

Fine.....

but does all your ranting get this blokes tight screws out??

So cut the arrogance and calling a very intelligent bloke an old fart when you know nothing of him.

We need more like youy around don't we?

Steve Cronin

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[Guest]

Re: Fine.....

youre the one whos ranting, and you were the one denigrating fitters and mechanics.
stu

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[Guest]

hey boys and girls

was i ranting? thought i was pretty objective myself, hands up and let us know
stu

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[tcm]

Degree-quailified engineers

I must disagree. A degree in engineering would introduce hydrodynmic theory, aeronautics, cover mathematics to a level slightly above A-level amongst other things. But under no circumstances would any graduate be expected to know the difference between snipe-nosed pliers, mole grips or stilsons, still less have skinned their knuckles on anything and everything in a boat's engineroom. On graduation, you might have worked briefly in the manufacturing industry, but would be very careful to refer back to "college" not "university" for fear of upsetting peers, your managers, the directors. If your were a really red hot engineer, you'd move abroad. Otherwise you would most likely have changed careers. Most do.

The word engineer has the same derivation as "genius". If you can remove awkwards nut and bolts, make things, fix things, design and improve those things that have already been made that all others think are unchangeable (and it sounds as if you can) then you have this genius and are an engineer.

Universities are most certainly not failing to teach, but the maufacturing industry has already failed a large number of their alumni. Perhaps it is part to do with the culture of the UK in which "old-fashioned" and "traditional" are seen as positive attributes and "new-fangled" or "clever" are derogatory. Which is strange, considering how there are so many brits with intuitive engineering skills.

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[Guest]

Re: Degree-quailified engineers

did move abroad, can and do fix, make, design, amaze my wife sometimes, but havent got that degree in mechanical engineering that allows me to call myself engineer davies, i so wanted, when i was 16, to follow in the footsteps of my metalwork master and have MEMechI, member of the institute of mechanical engineers, after my name, but it was never possible due to a load of factors beyond my control.
i am an old fart myself, still can wield a stilson and get my nails dirty and amaze my friends sometimes with the skills that i have honed over the years, one of the best moments was when i met said teacher a few years ago and explained to him how i had passed on his skills to young africans and arabs, the most memorable one being, USE ALL OF THE HACKSAW BLADE, BOY!! when i was going at a piece of mild steel with a hacksaw like a jack rabbit, slowly slowly use all of the blade!! and it doesent get worn in the middle and then snap when you take a long cut and catch the unworn edges. also dont strangle the hammer, use the mechanical advantage of all of the shaft, shall I go on? nah it would be nice for one of those kids in angola to come back to me as a man and say the same to me that he had passed on one of the skills that i handed to him from MR BOND MIMechE teacher at Yale Grammar technical School
stu
stu

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[Richard_Blake]

I've had success with a soldering iron on a gas torch. Fairly powerful one. Bought a spare tip, and filed it to fit neatly with maximum contact in the recess left by drilling slightly into the head (or shaft if the head's gone) of the screw. Have a bowl of water handy, with wet rag. Wet down wood periodically, and keep the soldering tip in the recess. Patience. Eventually the screw will let go, and you can turn it with mole grips, screwdriver, or those clever things especially for screwing backwards into screws until they come loose. You can protect the wood further from gas heat with a disk of something insulating (have used wet cardboard) with a hole for the soldering tip.
This worked on rusted galvanised screws in oak.
Richard

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[ccscott49]

Once you have got tthe hinges off, use a small hole saw, (same size as plug cutter) to cut around the screw, chisel the wood away, remove remaining screw with small pliers/moles or whatever comes to hand. plug holes with wooden plugs and epoxy, (plug cutters can be obtained from numerous sources), in various sizes. Refit hinges in original places, drilling pilot holes for screws, use linseed oil on the screws, then you wont have the problem again. This sytem will work, is a neat way. As opposed to many of the others that might work and will probably destroy the substrate. By the way, I'm a time serviced mechanic and I have a mechanical engineering degree, where do I fit in? /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

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[bryantee]

Read all the replies. some of them will work,when you win ,you will wonder what all the the fuss was about.I started on the farm at at 13 years old, Im still learning at 64. When I stop .I, m dead.Like some of the other forum members I have spent 30+ years in third world countries.If it Isnt broke don,t fix it if not whats to lose.but don,t drill unless you have to.Good luck.

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[clio]

Start with the smallest drill you can beg barry or steal, then your next size drill will follow the pilot hole, instead of running off.Time served fitter indeed I was shown how to do that in 1943,also how to take a steel bolt out the same way with a pilot hole and cut it out with a cutting torch, you can also put a nut over the spoiled end
solder or weld it on, if you like you can put a piece of scrap metal with a hole drilled in it to protect the surrounding surface

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[tcm]

Re: oh, Mr cronin

I think you read gcw's post the wrong way. When he said "until you get the degree you ain't an engineer" i honestly believe he meant to say "until ONE gets a degree ONE ain't an engineer".

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[tcm]

Re: Ccscott fitting in

Over-qualified for the crap jobs, but a bit grimy for the posh ones!

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