Drastic reduction in secondhand boat prices ?

alant said:
Presumably, gliders have air worthyness requiremnts, which can identify more specifically its condition & thus more closely its value?
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They have an annual Certificate of Airworthiness inspections, which is akin to a yacht survey. It's also a rather smaller world, with a smaller range of type available.
 
alant said:
I am saying, that brokerage fees, like any other 'costs incurred', will be factored into the vendors price.
Which you must agree with, since you've stated exactly the same above!
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No I don't agree. When selling something I do not prior putting a price on it factor in or add potential costs. I will advertise it at a price I feel is correct for the market.
 
jonic said:
Does anyone know what this thread is actually about now?

Here is something for you all to ponder.

I have been in this business for 10 years.

Buying and selling yachts used to be a rather gentlemanly process with concerns about sail area, ability to go to windward and load carrying capacity etc being the main topics of conversation.

In recent years there has been a development. There is now a small section of the yacht buying fraternity who have no interest in things like that whatsover. In fact they seem to know very little about sailing altogether.

Their primary rather ugly motive seems to simply be how much can I screw out of the owner, yacht broker, surveyor and anyone else in the process. The actual boat gets totally forgotten.

Fortunately they are less interested in the type of boats I sell, but I hear it from other sectors of the market.

Just an observation. :)
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You obviously don't deal with people in the below £30k market, where every penny counts.;)
 
alant said:
You obviously don't deal with people in the below £30k market, where every penny counts.;)
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I've got this Jeeves and Wooster image of jonic: the Gentleman's broker, for whom aesthetics is everything, and money is a dirty, working class sideshow.

Sounds like a good business model!
 
E39mad said:
No I don't agree. When selling something I do not prior putting a price on it factor in or add potential costs. I will advertise it at a price I feel is correct for the market.
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Which is?

Do you simply 'pluck' a figure out of the air?

Any product sold, has a price based upon costs, starting at raw materials & then added costs/value, at each stage on its journey to the buyer. To price otherwise, suggests bankruptcy. Any vendor, will attempt to get as high a price as possible, taking into consideration, any costs. Whether this price is finally achieved, is the unknown, since actual selling prices are rarely published for second hand boat sales.
 
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NealB said:
I've got this Jeeves and Wooster image of jonic: the Gentleman's broker, for whom aesthetics is everything, and money is a dirty, working class sideshow.

Sounds like a good business model!
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He, like some (a few) other brokers I know, have standards to maintain, otherwise he would lose any credibility.
Good service pays dividends, both in reputation & for seller/buyer.
 
alant said:
Any product sold, has a price based upon costs, starting at raw materials & then added costs/value, at each stage on its journey to the buyer. To price otherwise, suggests bankruptcy. Any vendor, will attempt to get as high a price as possible, taking into consideration, any costs. Whether this price is finally achieved, is the unknown, since actual selling prices are rarely published for second hand boat sales.
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Forgive me, but it seems to me that costing and pricing might not be your specialist subjects.

What you say makes sense at only the most simplistic level. The real world is infinitely more complex. Even a simple sounding question, such as "how much did that item cost?", is, if fact, quite complex.

There are many pricing models used. Some are based on some definition of cost, others ignore cost altogether.
 
NealB said:
Forgive me, but it seems to me that costing and pricing might not be your specialist subjects.

What you say makes sense at only the most simplistic level. The real world is infinitely more complex. Even a simple sounding question, such as "how much did that item cost?", is, if fact, quite complex.

There are many pricing models used. Some are based on some definition of cost, others ignore cost altogether.
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Really? :rolleyes:
 
alant said:
Any product sold, has a price based upon costs, starting at raw materials & then added costs/value, at each stage on its journey to the buyer. To price otherwise, suggests bankruptcy.
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Right, so if I ever sell my Triumph Herald convertible I should ask what it has cost me to restore it to immaculate condition, even though cars in that state (as I knew full well when I did the job) generally sell for around half what I paid out? And the Mona Lisa ... well, few square feet of canvas, bit of linseed oil, some colouring. Can't be more than twenty quid in that.
 
JumbleDuck said:
And the Mona Lisa ... well, few square feet of canvas, bit of linseed oil, some colouring. Can't be more than twenty quid in that.
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Classic.

They'd probably want Euro's for that one so I think you're overpricing it.

I could give you 18 quid for it but I'm looking at a couple of others later as well
 
JumbleDuck said:
Right, so if I ever sell my Triumph Herald convertible I should ask what it has cost me to restore it to immaculate condition, even though cars in that state (as I knew full well when I did the job) generally sell for around half what I paid out?
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Enjoy it, because commercially its a disaster!
 
alant said:
Which is?

Do you simply 'pluck' a figure out of the air?

Any product sold, has a price based upon costs, starting at raw materials & then added costs/value, at each stage on its journey to the buyer. To price otherwise, suggests bankruptcy. Any vendor, will attempt to get as high a price as possible, taking into consideration, any costs. Whether this price is finally achieved, is the unknown, since actual selling prices are rarely published for second hand boat sales.
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Sorry. Just wrong in the case of second hand boats. As I suggested earlier but you don't seem to want to see it, prices are set by markets. That is informed by previous transactions of similar products in a similar context. You can either look on markets as an abstract concept or see them in daily operation where people meet to trade. The result is the same - the transaction only takes place where both buyer and seller are satisfied.

It is information that makes all this work, which is why I suggested that having a structured market where information is shared makes the market more efficient. In the examples you are describing - at the individual transaction level it is lack of information that hampers the process. If there was no visible market an individual seller would have no idea how to price his boat - he would, indeed as you suggest just have to pluck a figure out of the air as his only basis for establishing its value is the price he paid for it, which may have little connection with its current value.

However with an open market he can look at other asking and selling prices as a guide to what he might ask. Inevitably because the product is not homogeneous prices tend to be in a range, but if he wants to attract buyers his price has to be in that same range. One advantage of using a broker in this context is that he does have access to better information such as selling prices so should be able to help the seller set his asking price more accurately. Whether he takes that advice is another matter as John will tell you.

Your cost plus model of pricing is commonly used - and often criticised - for new products. It is usually used because it is difficult to get accurate market pricing information for many products. However, where a market already exists it is more common to work the other way and start from the market price and see if you can produce the product at a profit, given the selling price is fixed.

None of what I have just written is intended to be patronising, nor have I made it up. It is all based on well established theory and research into how markets work. What you are seeing in the individual cases you describe is individual buyers and sellers failing to reach agreement on the price. There are all sorts of reasons why a seller may not accept the market price, some of them rational but often not. Frustrating for the potential buyer, but it is the seller's right to reject offers even if it is irrational. Equally a buyer may be irrational in not being prepared to pay the asking price. Neither are right or wrong - they just failed to reach an agreement.
 
Tranona said:
Your cost plus model of pricing is commonly used - and often criticised - for new products. It is usually used because it is difficult to get accurate market pricing information for many products. However, where a market already exists it is more common to work the other way and start from the market price and see if you can produce the product at a profit, given the selling price is fixed.
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A classic example of this was the original Mini, which lost about a fiver a car because that's what the market would pay.
 
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