Downsizing to a dinghy

Both the Bermudan ans the Gunter rig use the same main ie the Gunter sail. The sail area is exactly the same on both rigs. Both rigs race side by side in Class assoc races. The UK Mirror class assoc has full details about what is allowed and what isn't.

I've sailed a GRP hulled Mirror with a bermudan rig. It sailed exactly the same as my wooded hulled gunter rigged boat.
 
Zen Zero said:
The mirror is growing on me (I confess to having always* found them a bit of a joke)!

*since about 1975

Can you just buy the plans?
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Although I also had a bigger dinghy at the local club, I carried a Mirror on a roof-rack a lot: on a lower car (Anglia, then Mini then Cortina) could easily get it on and off on my own (also fitter then). Actually quite nice to sail, could singlehand very easily including jib and tiny spinnaker.

When I sold my first one while raising cash to buy a tiny cruiser I missed a "carry-with-me-when-working-away" boat so much I soon bought another very cheaply and fixed it up. After a days work away from home you could have an evenings sailing somewhere new.

As I said recently on another post, I always fancied an Otter until I sailed one.
 
What about a catamaran if you think space and weight may be a problem? They are generally bigger but take apart for transporting so each component is quite light to lift onto the roof. None have outboard brackets but you could easily make something to fit to the rear beam.
Dart 15 / 16 or even 18 come to mind. Hobie 16 is a possibility too although I think it is heavier than Dart 18. If you want to go really versatile a Catapult might be worth looking at.
Mirrors are fantastic little boats but rather slow to sail. Miracles a little better but the cat would bring a different dimension to sailing
 
Hmmm,

I had a Dart 18; very fragile beast, as demonstrated when the bloke buying mine rested - not dropped - a hull on a brick, which went straight through.

I didn't happen to like the handling either, I found myself thinking 'this is really fast, but no spray, no sensation'.

Each to their own but it convinced me I'm a monohull type, I'd rather be blinded by spray with feedback on the tiller at 12 knots than clinically slicing along like an unfeeling machine at 20 !

I think the fragility would soon show up if cartopping a Dart of any size, and it is a bit of a faff assembling the things.
 
Zen Zero said:
The mirror is growing on me (I confess to having always* found them a bit of a joke)!

*since about 1975

Can you just buy the plans?
Click to expand...
Pointless. (unless you enjoy the making rather than the sailing.)
For £500 you'll get a very well-looked after Mirror on a trailer with all the rig and foils. Lot's have been family pets, kept in the garage, used 3 or 4 times a year. I know of one (not for sale) that was professionally restored 5 years ago and hasn't seen the outside of the barn since.
There are loads for sale. Kids want the faster and more exciting small modern dinghies.
 
Seajet said:
Hmmm,

I had a Dart 18; very fragile beast, as demonstrated when the bloke buying mine rested - not dropped - a hull on a brick, which went straight through.

I didn't happen to like the handling either, I found myself thinking 'this is really fast, but no spray, no sensation'.

Each to their own but it convinced me I'm a monohull type, I'd rather be blinded by spray with feedback on the tiller at 12 knots than clinically slicing along like an unfeeling machine at 20 !

I think the fragility would soon show up if cartopping a Dart of any size, and it is a bit of a faff assembling the things.
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It's all down to personal preference I think. OP said he wanted something to carry on a campervan but able to lift on his own. I wouldn't fancy doing that with any boat but a Dart hull would be much easier than a Mirror. Also said he wanted space for 2 larger people. I think a Mirror or Miracle would be very cramped but there is space on a cat even if their weight would inhibit performance!
Can't agree with them being so fragile either. If resting the boat on a brick made a hole in it there was something else very wrong. I sailed Darts from their very early days through to about 5 years ago. Did a lot of travelling with them on trailers that involved taking them apart and could go from trailer to ready to sail in about 15 minutes. Same breaking down ready to trail again. Never had a problem with breakages other than normal wear and tear. My last boat was bought on a whim for £250 complete with trailer. Built in 1975 I bought her in 1999 and sold in 2006. Regularly won club races and did well at open meetings.
Maybe not what the OP wants but just trying to offer an alternative idea.
 
To BarryH and Seajet......

I have been toying with the idea of getting a little wooden Mirror Dink, but I am worried that they might be to tippy for someone like me? I am a bit on the big side, 6 foot and 18 stone, and I am not particularly agile either, hip problems. So what in your honest opinion would you advise? By the way, I would be single handing.
 
Probably OK :D

pic4336.jpg
 
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Chrusty 1 said:
To BarryH and Seajet......

I have been toying with the idea of getting a little wooden Mirror Dink, but I am worried that they might be to tippy for someone like me? I am a bit on the big side, 6 foot and 18 stone, and I am not particularly agile either, hip problems. So what in your honest opinion would you advise? By the way, I would be single handing.
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Chrusty 1,

I think a Mirror would definitely be out, too cramped.

An Otter might do; my chum who singlehanded his was about 5'10", 15 stone-ish and none too agile but I admit it's a bit marginal.

A more traditional design might do; is weight of the boat an issue ?

Pasarell,

there was nothing else wrong with the Dart, just unlucky the way it was put down hitting the brick at just the wrong pointy angle ! It was an early example, no.23.

Another example of the fragility compared to the monohull racers I'm used to, was that pitchpoling at speed - I was told - could break a lot of expensive battens, might disimprove the crews' ankles too !

My main dislike though was, as both of us have said, personal preference; I like a boat which talks to me through the tiller, not a machine which goes where one points it.
 
Seajet said:
h

Chrusty 1,

I think a Mirror would definitely be out, too cramped.

An Otter might do; my chum who singlehanded his was about 5'10", 15 stone-ish and none too agile but I admit it's a bit marginal.

A more traditional design might do; is weight of the boat an issue ?

No it aint, not really, I can keep it on the beach by my house, (beach is a euphemism for mud):) I have a slipway about 100 yards away that I can use to get it on and off a trailer if needs be. the trouble is, as much as I would love a traditional little dinghy / dayboat, they always want a lot of money for them, and as others have said, a Mirror can be had for a few hundred squids. I do like a boat I can sit in though, I am not keen on wet arse sailing.
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Chrusty 1,

well, the boat which springs to my mind is the 12' Tideway, lovely boat but not too common and as you say usually expensive.

I'll have a ponder and get back to you shortly !
 
I must agree about the wet bit. I believe a boat is there to keep you out of the water.

However, I am getting a wet boat (2 actually) and hope to overcome my prejudice as I quite like the idea of going a bit faster.

On the stability front I'd be careful of round-bilged boats. My 13ft clinker dinghy was very tender indeed when moving about in the boat. My 11ft Heron was much stiffer.
A Heron or a GP 14 would be a good boat, you can sail them from inside and are fairly plentiful. To leave on the "beach" a grp boat would probably be a good idea. Much less maintenance.

Seajet will be along in a mo. to suggest an Otter. :) (Never heard of it myself, but looks to be round-bilged.
Otters do get wet

otter2.jpg
 
Chrusty 1,

had a think, and I reckon you could do a lot worse than a Heron dinghy. 11', plywood usually, slightly on the heavy side ( min 140lbs but I'd think older ones a fair bit more ), a pretty boat.

Gunter or bermudan, but I'd think older cheaper ones will be gunter which I'd say is better anyway for this sort of handy boat.

There's an excellent class association & website I just had a quick look at;

http://www.heron-dinghy.org.uk/index.php/home-mainmenu-149/about-the-heron-mainmenu-66.html

I see there are examples for sale from £275 - 1200.

Hard to think of a better boat for you, always fancied one myself.
 
Lakesailor,

beat you to it, I'd already mentioned an Otter, but don't think it would suit Chrusty 1 !

Surprised you haven't heard of them, maybe a southern thing; used by some sailing schools and a good 12' round bilge grp moderate rig boat.

They do seem to have dropped off the radar, just as the Miracle did for a while.

I see you mention a Heron too, I'd think that ideal.

Can't stand GP14's myself, used to sail / race a supposedly posh one, couldn't believe how heavy and slow it was, tons of effort hiking out and zero performance to show for it...
 
Lakesailor said:
I must agree about the wet bit. I believe a boat is there to keep you out of the water.

However, I am getting a wet boat (2 actually) and hope to overcome my prejudice as I quite like the idea of going a bit faster.

On the stability front I'd be careful of round-bilged boats. My 13ft clinker dinghy was very tender indeed when moving about in the boat. My 11ft Heron was much stiffer.
A Heron or a GP 14 would be a good boat, you can sail them from inside and are fairly plentiful. To leave on the "beach" a grp boat would probably be a good idea. Much less maintenance.

Seajet will be along in a mo. to suggest an Otter. :) (Never heard of it myself, but looks to be round-bilged.
Otters do get wet

GP14s have their moments too, this is my mate sailing his, you can guess what he was thinking at that moment can't you, he did recover from the situation, but the rudder had not bite at all! I do like the GP 14 as a design, but a bit unsure of my capabilities?
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Seajet said:
I rest my case, standing on its' ear demanding a lot of effort, while going nowhere ! :)
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My mates trousers were a bit brown on the inside too, he wasn't dressed for the occasion really, mob phone in pocket along with wallet etc. He would not have been best pleased if he had got dunked!

I had a look at the Heron, I like the Gunter Rig! I am just wondering if 11 foot is enough boat? Bloke did a nice job on this one though.

http://www.heron-dinghy.org.uk/index.php/photo-gallery.html
 
I'd think you need a look at one and ideally a sail; the class association looks very switched on, I expect they might connect you with someone who can offer a go.

Thinking of the older boats especially, they're quite heavy for the size, which is why I think one might suit; I agree gunter rig makes sense for this sort of boat.
 
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