Downsize of roller genoa from 145%?

A

andrewAB

Well-Known Member
Joined
16 Jun 2013
Messages
69
Location
Cardiff / Ionian
Visit site
I have a 12 year old and baggy lightly used (1 or 2 months per year) roll genoa on my Beneteau 343 I am looking to replace. I am considering a smaller sail as I find myself reducing headsail in anything greater than 14 knot AWS . At that windspeed boatspeed doesn't drop noticeably when headsail area is reduced and handling is improved. I sail mostly singlehanded (with wife sleeping/reading) and autopilot steering.

I sail mostly in Ionion Sea where it is usually a good breeze in the afternoon (F4/F5) and full headsail not needed. In the mornings usually very little wind so not much progress even with the full headsail. Looking to head over the Aegean in the next few years (but that is what I said a few years ago!) where stronger winds are expected.

My questions are:
1. Should I reduce to the "standard" 130% all purpose (#2 size)?
2. Should I reduce further to 100~110% (#3 size)?
3. Is the foam luff worth having?
4. Should I go for Hydranet instead of standard "Performance Cruise" Dacron?
5. Is radial cut worth it?

Currently leaning toward a 130%, crosscut, Hydranet with foam luff (Rolled to 110% should still have good shape).
But on other boats I have found the #2 the least used sail and changed directly from #1 (full main) to #3 and then then keep #3 up with main flaten, reef 1 and reef 2.

Following is some of the numerical data.
Thanks for any feedback
Andrew


Boat is 10.35m long, 3.5m beam (with a big flat fat arse), shoal draft 1.45m
mainsail 29 m2
headsail 35 m2 ~145% (#1 size, no foam luff, roller furler)
displacement 5380 kg, ballast 1960kg. Bal/disp = 36.4
SA/disp = 20.85 exisitng headsail

#1 size 38.4 m2 150% SA/Disp 21.95
#2 size 33.3 m2 130% (roll genoa) SA/Disp 20.29
#3 size 27.7 m2 110% SA/Disp 18.47
jib size 25.6 m2 100% (roll jib) SA/Disp 17.78

Upwind in ~14 knots AWS I reef to the second mark on the roller headsail to keep boat balance and prevent big roundups
Upwind: AWS 14 knots, 30 AWA, boatspeed 5.5 knots
calculated TWS 9.6 kn, TWA 47, VMG 3.78 kn
polar TWS 10 kn, TWA 44, VMG 4.08 kn
So upwind a few degrees off target TWA and 7% off targer VMG.

Downwind or reaching reef at boatspeed over 7 ~ 7.5 knots, as when it hits 8 or 9 knots the autopilot struggles
Close Reaching: AWS 14 kn, AWA 60, boatspeed 7~7.5 kn
caclulated: TWS 12 kn, TWA 92
polar: TWS 12 kn, TWA 90, 7.22 kn

Broad reaching: AWS 14 kn, AWA 95, boatspeed 8 kn
calculated: TWS 16 kn, TWA 122
polar: TWS 16 kn, TWA 120, 8.22 kn

Downwind: 8~ knots AWS, 160 AWA, 7.5 knots boatspeed
calculated: TWS 15.3 kn, TWA 170, VMG -7.4 kn
polar: TWS 14 kn, TWA 173, VMP -6.6 kn
polar: TWS 16 kn, TWA 180, VMP -7.1 kn
 
The only one of your questions I can offer an answer to is no. 3
In my experience a foam luff is definitely worthwhile. I find I can put several rolls in my 140% genoa, reducing it to about 120% with no discernible loss of shape. To windward in anything above 12kts apparent this allows me to sail about 10 degrees closer to the wind than with full sail.
 
Sandy said:
I'd sit down with your sailmaker over a steaming cup of coffee and discuss.
Click to expand...

But do it quickly - the spring rush (and prices) will kick off shortly!

125% genoas are pretty versatile especially if they have a slightly raised clew. Better for visibility, less car movement needed when you reef, and pole out well with a J length spinnaker pole.

High quality dacron (with UV strip) in cross cut are hard to beat for value / longevity. Radial head and tri radial add a lot of bulky seams at the head and tack where you don't want then when you furl. Hydranet is the best higher tech material for cruising sails until you can afford North 3Di. But whether even that is 'worth the money' for your use is up to you.

I've had lots of success with furlers with both a head and tack swivel used without a foam luff.
 
We have sailed happily with 110% on a 19/20th rig but 125% could be a good compromise. Definitely a foam luff but a material to choice. We got about twelve years use out of our last laminate jib, with at least three months a year in all winds in that time, with the advantage that the sail was the same shape at the end as when it started, but it's a matter of compromise, and I agree that a chat with a sailmaker is the way to go.
 
Recently changed from 140% to 120% high cut genoa in DP Vectran with foam luff. Boat is much more balanced and, apart from very light breezes, does not suffer any loss of speed. Visibility is markedly improved. Everything I hoped for.
 
I have a large genoa which is great for light winds but rolling it up spoils the cut and balance, no foam luff, so l had a 120 % new sail which when single handed makes the difference between easy handling and edge of the seat stuff. If there are light winds and forecast to remain then the big brute goes on, otherwise the small sail for all other trips.
 
I have a 130% furler with a foam luff in Vectran. It works well when rolled, but will never be as good as a non furling sail. Everything is a compromise and how much you like to trim/tweak your sails. Personally I would not consider anything smaller as light wind performance will suffer.

The other thing you have not mentioned is the sacrificial strip. I have a white one as I think it looks better than coloured ones and there is very little difference in UV protection to a dark colour. The other question to ask is how the leech is constructed. Cheap sails have a 4 ply leech, where better sails have 6 ply. The difference comes when you want to change the sacrificial strip. The 6 ply only needs the sacrificial removed and replaced, whereas the 4 ply requires a complete leech rebuild at a much greater cost.
 
I had this type of discussion with sailmaker Peter S in lymington over a coffee when we had a BAv34 so Sail size I suspect much similar to the Bene 343 not sailing in med but we switched smaller size,high cut to see under better to foam luff on hood vectran -more pricey than your Dacron clearly but hopefully more durable etc . Now on larger boat we have 2 headsails in what might be termed slutter by some so can change down via furler between large and smaller self tacker . I guess best thing is to ask a few sailmakers for quotes though in different clothes . As you might be in Cardiff maybe ask around your marina yacht club though for local sailmakers as prices are no doubt cheaper .
 
I am about to order a new main and furling headsail (135 with luff foam).
I am in Japan and as the last sailmaker closed down here 10 years ago the decision to order from Hong Kong has been made for me.

My question are:
Both my old sails have leach adjusters with the little jam cleats. I have never touched them and they are an area that has especially worn and given way. Should just abandon them in the new sails?

I have a Cunningham cringle on the old main. I have never rigged a downhaul to it or used it.
Should I give up on one on the new sail?

Just thinking of getting rid of stuff that I never use.

gary
 
Definitely stick with leach adjusters as you do not know how the leach of the new sails will set.
If your old sails have worn in that area, one might ask if it is due to leach flutter. If so adjusting the leach line would probably have avoided that
As for cunningham, It costs pennies to have it so why not. You might actually find that using it on your new sail does actually make a difference.
 
garymalmgren said:
I am about to order a new main and furling headsail . . . . the decision to order from Hong Kong . . .
Click to expand...

If buying from Hong Kong, I've always had good service from Cheong Lee Sailmakers. They've been around a long time and build excellent sails.

Remember with all sailmakers, it'd a highly competitive market. Make sure you know exactly what type of cloth will be used, the construction method, the details of the finishing, etc.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top