'Don't support the RNLI'.

Re: the sarcastic bit

[ QUOTE ]
Of course RN officers become good at their speciality but the career does nor really fit them for the intense rough and tumble of civvi street...You should not believe all you read in the recruiting booklets


[/ QUOTE ]
Well, I don't read the recruiting booklets. I just employed ex-servicemen as a preference because I found them to be highly reliable managers capable of rapidly adapting to a new job with the minimum of training. Accepted, that was ten years ago, but standards don't change that quickly.

Your field of 'rough and tumble' was obviously completely different from mine. Or you're guessing.
 
Re: the sarcastic bit

Why do I suddenly get the feeling that your extraordinary prejudices are the result of failing an attempt to get into the RN at some time in your past.....
 
Re: \'Don\'t support the RNLI\'.

[ QUOTE ]
What a lot of pointless squabbling!!

The real point about the RNLI is that it shouldn't be a charity, but money should be provided by Government in the same way that Fire, Police & Ambulance services are. As an island nation EVERYBODY should contribute as we all use the sea, even if only indirectly by buying goods imported by ships from abroad.
For those of us who use the sea as a 'leisure facility', I think a compulsory donation should be required along with a small percentage of the profits made by marina operators, chandlers, yacht brokers etc. This could then be distributed to the RNLI and anybody else providing rescue facilities.

[/ QUOTE ]

At least one sensible approach to the provision of rescue services to the leisure boating side of seafaring. Alternatively we could campaign for an equal charity for the leisure motoring aspect of land transport RNSUVI so that we could all ditch the AA and RAC. Do you think it would get popular support?
 
Re: the sarcastic bit

[ QUOTE ]
Why do I suddenly get the feeling that your extraordinary prejudices are the result of failing an attempt to get into the RN at some time in your past.....

[/ QUOTE ]
Never tried... did work with them a lot... quite enjoyed it.. one morning I found myself up in a wasp with a huge private yacht and a Leander class frigate steaming alongside each other and a nimrod all working to my instructions... I got the nimrod to fly under the wasp I was in which was hovering at 200 feet above the frigate and the yacht... Brilliant shot but the updraft was a bit scary some moments later!

It is possible to like something very much - like the RN but be aware of its shortcomings.
 
Re: the sarcastic bit

[ QUOTE ]
I just employed ex-servicemen as a preference because I found them to be highly reliable managers capable of rapidly adapting to a new job with the minimum of training.

[/ QUOTE ]
Come on Jim - be fair - as ex RAF professional yourself of course you are going to like employing ex military personnel.... like day follows night. Could you be a little biased?
Have a happy new year.
 
Re: the sarcastic bit

[ QUOTE ]
Of course RN officers become good at their speciality but the career does nor really fit them for the intense rough and tumble of civvi street...

[/ QUOTE ]

Not my experience - seen some very capable ex-military managers, and yes, some less capable ones, but a minority. The ill-fitted for commercial civvy street have IMX been civilian public sector - no discipline, no backbone for when it gets tough - not criticisms one finds necessary to make of most ex-forces managers.

Of course, being largely brought up on an ethos of honesty and accountability they're often not so well suited to some of the more politicised publicly-funded bodies where duplicity and dishonesty are the acceptable norm.
 
Re: the sarcastic bit

[ QUOTE ]
as ex RAF professional yourself of course you are going to like employing ex military personnel.... like day follows night. Could you be a little biased?


[/ QUOTE ] Why should I give preference to ex military personnel? I had a business to create and run. I needed, and paid for, those who were available and could best do the job in hand. To have a bias towards any particular group of the population (other than those with knowledge or experience of the leisure industry) would have been foolish.

Of several hundred employed, not many ex-service featured, but of those who did, all were reliable, performed well up to expectations, and were usually promoted. I could not say the same of all the others. And I delegated HR to a professional (non-service).

Have you had similar experience to guide your judgement that servicemen are ill fitted to cope with civvi street?
 
Re: the sarcastic bit

Oops - didn't mean to upset you... was just trying to express the slight possibility that if you 'learn your business' in a military environment then there will perhaps be a certain mind set that will make employing other military people with similar 'work' backgrounds attractive to employ... predictable.

There is a vast fund of experience outside retired military personnel. I found that the service environment did not always reflect a more commercial world. for example the big emphasis for military personnel is training. Learning by rote and con... for the day when... In a wider world, imagination and the ability to adapt quickly to new different situations with new ideas is perhaps more highly prized?

I've had enough - we are just doing yours is bigger than mine... Have a happy new year..

Michael
 
Re: the sarcastic bit

It was my experiance working at the front line for 15 years that top jobs and Divisional Inspector jobs seemed to be jobs for the boys...or rather leave the Navy withyour nice pension and there is a nice cosy office for you here....the "old boy net" lets call it!!

As for money wasted....at times it would make you cry, I could write a small book on it!!!

Paul
 
Re: \'Don\'t support the RNLI\'.

I have just read through all of this post. The first time I heard the view which started this thread it came directly from an India Juliette pilot. As it came from a reliable source I started looking at the RNLI buildings and the quality goes way beyond reducing the running costs. There has been a lot said about comparisons with various organisations, I believe the comparison with the RNLI of say 10 years ago is the best. The health and safety rules around now would require an increase in personnel but by no means the numbers we have seen in Poole! I suspect the truth, like in most cases lies between the extremes. Anyone seen the carpark in Poole, I would be interested to see the cars these people get with their "packages"? My money goes to the Portishead Independent boat!
 
Re: the sarcastic bit

Well, Michael, you have rather stirred things up since I last visited this thread. Fools step in...

I have had a bit to do with another national charity (which will remain nameless so that goes nowhere), and I can understand your points. The problem you are highlighting is that the RNLI management is self-regulating (board of friendly trustees?) and there can be no effective challenge to posts and salaries which might tend to be generous. I, in my ignorance, find that the 7 executives listed on a url above are probably all going to require above 50K, but for a soft job like the RNLI, it should not be difficult to find good people? But the numbers were 30 people at head office gettting over 50K. Compared even with the last job I had before retirement, with an international distribution company, that is a heck of a lot of high earners. Don't compare them with management consultants, software developers and such - below the board of directors they would not appear to have any wealth-generation function, and thus are likely to be available at 25-35K. (BTW what would that HR lady be doing, interviewing mechanics and coxwains...??)

However, I think this is a symptom of our times. It is not limited to the RNLI, and I would suggest that IF it is true (the financial matters are not so all-revealed as some poster suggested), <span style="color:red"> IF it is true that they are a bit overpaid, then it is probably a far lesser case than large business in general</span> . Really big businesses pay the board very well, far too well by most measures, but that is another story.

The 'other' charity I have some intimate knowledge of fits the description Mike has of the RNLI. The directors regard it as semi-retirement, but have a great reputation for energetic management. I have no idea if he is maligning the RNLI, but he would be right on the button for the 'other'. That is not to say he is necessarily right, just that he quite easily could be.
 
Re: \'Don\'t support the RNLI\'.

So if anyone's still reading this thread, I'd like to answer the question of "Why aren't they [the independants] parts of the RNLI?"

One size does not fit all. Some of the independants have been around for decades and none are in the least bit "amateur" in the way they operate. GAFIRS for instance has been in operation since 1969. It's members include doctors, paramedics, RN, professional and sport divers etc. Take a look at GAFIRS or Independant Lifeboats to get more info.

Independants are mostly "Declared" resources to the coastguard. If they did operate in any way less than "professional" they would not have this status. They are also tasked in the same way as the RNLI and don't just swan around offering assistance.

Their boats and the way they are operated are designed specifically for the local tasks. i.e. many operate diesel powered jet boats because they can get into shallow water over mud and are less expensive to operate than petrol outboards. The RNLI only just started using jets I believe whereas the independants have been using them where appropriet for years. In addition, many offer additional services: divers, paramedics, doctors etc.

One massive advantage of being part of an organisation like the RNLI is the backup and support. BUT disadvantages are that you need to standardise on equipment that may not be optimal for local conditions and also lose the ability to make independant decisions on the services that can be offered.
 
Re: \'Don\'t support the RNLI\'.

I'm willing to support GAFIRS as well as the RNLI as they would be my local independant service. But... I am not quite convinced by the reasons why they want to remain independant (assuming that the RNLI would be willing to take over the station). Why would local conditions in Gosport require different equipment to the equipment used by the inshore RNLI in the rest of the Solent?
As for decisions on services, I can see the benefit of independance in theory but struggle to see in practise where the RNLI would decide no to offer the correct services.

So as long as they aren't just independant for the sake of it then they'll get my backing.

Marc.
 
Re: \'Do support the Independent lifeboats\'

I think one reason why the Indpendent organisations choose to remain independent rather than (say) becoming part of the RNLI is that they do not want to have to answer to Big Chiefs elsewhere in High Command - ie, precisely the same reason why the RNLI declined to have any Government assistance provided to their organisation.

I think the RNLI are very sensible to not want Govt intervention - they are perfectly capable of running their own affairs without Politicians and Crats interfering - in the same manner as the Independent Lifeboat Organisations, who do not want to have to be answerable to Higher Command.

The GAFIRS know what they are doing for sure - they have been going for almost 40 years - and they have got where they are by the tireless effort of their volunteers. If you chuck a few quid into their collecting tin, you know that it is going directly to operating the lifeboat - whereas with the RNLI 20% (in theory) of that goes on office management. And while the remaining 80% includes the cost of design, new construction, re-fits and maintenance, I think it also includes all the salaries of the Lifeboat Surveyors, Divisional Inspectors and Engineers, and Technical and Survey staff at head office (but I might be corrected on this - statistics can be very difficult to interpret re what is spent where).

The Independents do have much lower overheads relatively, hence one can look at it from the point of view that the fiver you are contributing will 'go a lot further' in terms of boat pounds per mile at sea.

Please do continue to support the RNLI with your Shoreline memberships - I do even though I am 4,000 miles away - but please also support your Independents.

As Dave mentions above, Independents like the GAFIRS can often provide additonal specialised services (eg re the skills of their crews) that might not be always available with the RNLI crews.

And the GAFIRS cottoned on to the merits of water jet propulsion systems long before the RNLI finally started to 'see the light' - when I was working there, I (and most others in the Design office) was amazed at how prejudiced the Operations Department were in this respect. I am pleased to see that the new Fast Carriage Boat (which will ulimately replace the Mersey class vessels) will be equipped with water jet propulsion - it makes sense!
 
Thanks for the tip!

As a cruising sailor I'll stick with the RNLI if it's all the same to you.

If I were lucky enough to have a dinghy at the bottom of the garden I'm sure I would chip a regular few quid in to the local lads.

As it is I prefer the thought that the RNLI remains the substantial, and well funded rescue organisation that it currently is.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top