'Don't support the RNLI'.

Re: \'Don\'t support the RNLI\'.

Thats a bit unfair, although I am sure Michael can defend himself!
His point is valid & is certainly not in anyway making comments on the men & women who put their lives & time on the line.

The point is about the normal trough that is at the top of most organisations.
If its not the case then good luck to them , but the new headquaters is very plush & there are 30 odd people earning more than £50,000 PA.

poter
 
Re: \'Don\'t support the RNLI\'.

Hi Mari
Thanks for the invitation. We shall be there given a slight improvement in the weather. It rather saddens me to read the intemperate posts this all seems to have generated. I just sail my boat but I am always conscious and grateful that whatever b***s up I may make someone will come when I shout.
 
Re: \'Don\'t support the RNLI\'.

[ QUOTE ]
Thats a bit unfair, although I am sure Michael can defend himself!
His point is valid & is certainly not in anyway making comments on the men & women who put their lives & time on the line.

The point is about the normal trough that is at the top of most organisations.
If its not the case then good luck to them , but the new headquaters is very plush & there are 30 odd people earning more than £50,000 PA.

poter

[/ QUOTE ]

What's unfair? I am simply asking him to provide substantiated evidence for his allegations..............

30 odd people on more than 50k a year? Are there? Plush new headquarters? want do you want them to do, operate out of a hut on on the beach at Poole?

Hey! there's gotta be a trough aint there, cos there has, I mean no organisation could be handling the kind of annual budget that the RNLI does without there being a trough for the top pigs to snuffle in!!????

Do you see how horribly distasteful that sounds?
 
Re: \'Don\'t support the RNLI\'.

[ QUOTE ]
Mr Briant, I am not saying anything, I am however still waiting for you to substantiate what you are saying. You are the one that is making these allegations, I am neither denying or confirming what you are saying. I am just waiting for you to provide evidence for what YOU ARE SAYING?

Now if you have difficulty with that, I would suggest that it would be a good idea, that maybe you kept your opinions, (for that is all they are at the moment) to yourself.


[/ QUOTE ]

Please feel free to call me Michael or even Michael E.

I greatly admire the mechanics who are frequently the only 'staff' members of a RNLI crew but are normally not paid a very commercial rate. I admire the Coxswains of some of the larger boats who are sometimes, sometimes, on the 'staff' and also receive a modest remuneration compared to similar professional skippers (but are asked to take considerable risks) I admire all the volunteer crew who just get a 'call out' payment which is much less than the rate of professional firemen. All the above is a given - Brave and skilled men and women who sign up to take risks for little monetary reward.........

But at the top there are some 'fat cats' Not a big surprise when such huge amounts of money are involved... The question I am asking is -- do you know what they are receiving in pay and perks? Just a question and I get the feeling that the answer is that you do not know -- Me? Well lets say this - when somebody asks me for money I like to know how much of it goes to the people at the 'top' and how much goes to the men and women actually doing the work...
So what's wrong with that?
 
Re: \'Don\'t support the RNLI\'.

[ QUOTE ]
Thats a bit unfair, although I am sure Michael can defend himself!
His point is valid & is certainly not in anyway making comments on the men & women who put their lives & time on the line.

The point is about the normal trough that is at the top of most organisations.
If its not the case then good luck to them , but the new headquaters is very plush & there are 30 odd people earning more than £50,000 PA.

poter

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you referroing to the new HQ at Poole as being plush?

IMO it is no more 'plush' than many offices were in the 1970s. If you, as a member, wish to avail yourself of the accommodation then, IMO, it is no better than a Novotel in France.

I am probably agreeing with Smiffy.

You cannot compare the RNLI with any other British organisation as regards pay, it is unique. The RNLI has to attract people to administrate its organaisation, and to do that it must be prepared to offer reasonable employment packages (if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif), and £50,000 pa in this day and age is scarcely fat cat's salary.

Michael is certainly free to make whatever comments he likes, but as he as obviously abandoned the UK for a better life overseas, then he will not wish to avail himself of the facilities that the RNLI will give him, unless he ventures into our waters, suffers a mishap, and tghen finds that they will help him for nothing!
 
Re: \'Don\'t support the RNLI\'.

[ QUOTE ]
Michael is certainly free to make whatever comments he likes, but as he as obviously abandoned the UK for a better life overseas, then he will not wish to avail himself of the facilities that the RNLI will give him, unless he ventures into our waters, suffers a mishap, and tghen finds that they will help him for nothing

[/ QUOTE ]
Malcolm are you telling me that if I get into trouble in French, Spanish, Italian, American waters no one will help me? Not the way it was in Biscay with the gales of a few weeks ago... French S&R rescued or towed in 3 yachts one evening at the same time the inshore boat was patrolling the approaches to La Rochelle looking for a yacht crew that had gone overboard. They were out in Storm F10 winds on spring tides and were taking considerable risks... I have heard similar 'activities' in Spain and around Corsica - Sicily... The CC ships etc in the American fishing incident that became the movie The Perfect Storm.. None of that is to take anything away from that splendid institution the RNLI.
If you come to French Waters you will get a similar service as you will in American waters or Spanish Waters. The RNLI is not alone - It is alone in as much as it is a major charity - full marks for building excellent facilities, offices, training areas etc but -, and please accept that this is a question not point scoring - do you have any concept of the rewards paid to the half dozen mainly retired ex RN ranking officers who club together at the top? Do you?
 
Re: \'Don\'t support the RNLI\'.

I know my father stopped giving money to the RNLI about 15 years ago after a group of officials had come down for some sort of event. They travelled first class and stayed for a week in the most expensive hotel in Falmouth.

You may think "ah, but thats 15 years ago", but I heard exactly the same again when an official came down to Cornwall to oversee the launching of a new Lifeboat somewhere on the north coast. What annoyed most people is that this guy had only come down to watch, he had no reason to be there but the RNLI had paid all his expenses.
 
Re: \'Don\'t support the RNLI\'.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Mr Briant, I am not saying anything, I am however still waiting for you to substantiate what you are saying. You are the one that is making these allegations, I am neither denying or confirming what you are saying. I am just waiting for you to provide evidence for what YOU ARE SAYING?

Now if you have difficulty with that, I would suggest that it would be a good idea, that maybe you kept your opinions, (for that is all they are at the moment) to yourself.


[/ QUOTE ]

Please feel free to call me Michael or even Michael E.

I greatly admire the mechanics who are frequently the only 'staff' members of a RNLI crew but are normally not paid a very commercial rate. I admire the Coxswains of some of the larger boats who are sometimes, sometimes, on the 'staff' and also receive a modest remuneration compared to similar professional skippers (but are asked to take considerable risks) I admire all the volunteer crew who just get a 'call out' payment which is much less than the rate of professional firemen. All the above is a given - Brave and skilled men and women who sign up to take risks for little monetary reward.........

But at the top there are some 'fat cats' Not a big surprise when such huge amounts of money are involved... The question I am asking is -- do you know what they are receiving in pay and perks? Just a question and I get the feeling that the answer is that you do not know -- Me? Well lets say this - when somebody asks me for money I like to know how much of it goes to the people at the 'top' and how much goes to the men and women actually doing the work...
So what's wrong with that?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well Michael, you are free to make as many assumptions as you wish, I don't happen to think that there are any "Fat Cats" at the top end of the RNLI, at least not in the PLC sense.

People give to the RNLI for all sorts of reasons, (and thank God they do). I can only speak for myself, and tell you that I don't give a rats arris who gets paid what, as long as they get the job done. As someone has already intimated, the RNLI accounts are available to anyone that wishes to view them, so I don't think that there are any sinister secrets and I am sure there is no snuffling in the trough.

I feel that an organisation the size of the RNLI, with the budget they have to deal with needs people at the top that are the best the RNLI can get. Now I don't pretend for one minute that I know all the ins and outs of RNLI business, but as far as I am concerned, I just thank the lord that they are there, and am happy to let them get on with it. Call it an act of faith if you like?

For my own interest, I will contact Robert Colville, who is the Treasurer, and ask him for a copy of the accounts to April 2006, or whichever is appropriate. I don't think I will find any surprises.

For your interest, it just happens that a cousin of mine is an Area Director for Barnados, she is on just about 50k per annum, she has a small expense account. If she has to attend a meeting in London, she flies down from Leeds to do so, Why? because it is usually cheaper than the train or a National Express Coach, and will get her there on time. The point I am making is that, Barnardos is also a charity, but like the RNLI, has to operate in the real world, and make sure that it uses it's funds wisely. In order to do this, it is sometimes necessary to employ top people with a good financial background, and pay them a salary commensurate with their experience and expertise.

Now I have the feeling that we wont find much common ground on this one, except maybe for our mutual admiration and respect for the Lifeboat crews who put themselves on the line for all who go to sea in ships, large or small. So I suggest we shake cyberhands, and quit on good terms?


What say you? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
salaries quite ok, panic over. Unlike the BBC...

according to the accounts

1 person on £125k pa
1 on 95k
3 on 85k
7 on 65k
20 on 55k

which doesn't sound hugely profligate, income going up, loads of assets to be counted, legals and merchandising to be organised and so on?

Now, compare this with the BBC where the personaal departemnt is biger than the entire staff of chanel four, and plenty on loads more than a piffling 125 grand....
 
Re: \'Don\'t support the RNLI\'.

What a lot of pointless squabbling!!

The real point about the RNLI is that it shouldn't be a charity, but money should be provided by Government in the same way that Fire, Police & Ambulance services are. As an island nation EVERYBODY should contribute as we all use the sea, even if only indirectly by buying goods imported by ships from abroad.
For those of us who use the sea as a 'leisure facility', I think a compulsory donation should be required along with a small percentage of the profits made by marina operators, chandlers, yacht brokers etc. This could then be distributed to the RNLI and anybody else providing rescue facilities.
 
Re: \'Don\'t support the RNLI\'.

[ QUOTE ]
Call it an act of faith if you like?

For my own interest, I will contact Robert Colville, who is the Treasurer, and ask him for a copy of the accounts to April 2006, or whichever is appropriate. I don't think I will find any surprises.


[/ QUOTE ]

I have less faith than you but am very happy to shake cyberhands. Please ask Robert Colville the questions I formed. You can say I posted them on the forum and use my name if you want.

If he answers, I suspect you will not receive a straightforward reply item by item but rather in 'accounts' which have little detail. If I am wrong and he does give you the itemised detail then I think, think you will pretty surprised at 'life at the top' of a charity.

fair winds

Michael
 
Re: \'Don\'t support the RNLI\'.

[ QUOTE ]
What a lot of pointless squabbling!!

The real point about the RNLI is that it shouldn't be a charity, but money should be provided by Government in the same way that Fire, Police & Ambulance services are. As an island nation EVERYBODY should contribute as we all use the sea, even if only indirectly by buying goods imported by ships from abroad.
For those of us who use the sea as a 'leisure facility', I think a compulsory donation should be required along with a small percentage of the profits made by marina operators, chandlers, yacht brokers etc. This could then be distributed to the RNLI and anybody else providing rescue facilities.

[/ QUOTE ]


Here now hang on a minute, you are opening up a whole new tin of worms here!, Christ almighty! you will have 'em all banging on about more taxes now! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Re: \'Don\'t support the RNLI\'.

Completely disagree that RNLI should lose its charitable status and become a government department.

At the moment the RNLIis well funded ,superbly well equipped ,well trained and highly motivated. Compare that with any government department you care to think of??
 
Re: \'Don\'t support the RNLI\'.

[ QUOTE ]
Completely disagree that RNLI should lose its charitable status and become a government department.

At the moment the RNLIis well funded ,superbly well equipped ,well trained and highly motivated. Compare that with any government department you care to think of??

[/ QUOTE ]

Erm.................The Ministry of Funny Walks? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Re: salaries quite ok, panic over. Unlike the BBC...

[ QUOTE ]
according to the accounts

1 person on £125k pa
1 on 95k
3 on 85k
7 on 65k
20 on 55k
Now, compare this with the BBC where the personaal departemnt is biger than the entire staff of chanel four, and plenty on loads more than a piffling 125 grand....

[/ QUOTE ]
Not quite sure what the BBC has to do with it but I agree £125 grand is piffling plus the car(s) expenses accounts, pension rights and a few other minor 'perks' and the poor [--word removed--] on 85-95 plus the expenses, pension rights, cars holiday fund etc have truly found out that 'charity begins at home' - The way they get up in the middle of the night struggle into wet weather gear and take their boats out into storm force conditions or tow in some bloke whose engine has broken down on a flat calm day so he will not be late into the office leaves me breathless...

It is not a business it is a charity - if it is only about raising money then why are they all RN officers? Not a service renown for raising money.

The BBC is in direct competition with international broadcasters to keep its audience - It has to pay 'stars' and 'celebrities' the going rate but actually normally pays less. It is a vast organisation - the biggest broadcaster in the world in terms of output, sales and original productions and restricted by a licence fee which is decided by someone else. (I was briefly on the staff between the ages of 21 and 25 and then became a freelance because it paid better!) Out of interest when Sir Alec Guinness did his first job for the Beeb he had to travel to Glasgow for the recording and the Beeb handed him a 2nd class railway ticket for his trip from London to Scotland. He travelled 2nd class with the other actors. As a freelance director my 'daily allowance was not enough to pay for a night at the Bristol Holiday Inn!!
Hey ho - happy days!
 
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