'Don't support the RNLI'.

Re: \'Don\'t support the RNLI\'.

The role of RNLI has changed as the number of fishing vessels falls and pleasure craft increases, with it the number of hapless folk getting into trouble and more drain on resources. As well intentioned the small independant rescuers may be they are not going to be much help in a gale when your boat is in the middle of the channel drifting towards the shipping lanes. Only the RNLI with its powerful offshore's is gonna do. The RNLI is a professionally run organisation which deserves top management who maximise the revenue potential. These people need to be looked after properly as in any well performing business. The increasingly competing appeals for legacies/donations means that they need to be looking for more sophisticated marketing to keep the money coming in.As far as I'm concerned you can never have too much money spent on rescue and there can't be many charities with a bigger overhead than the RNLI
 
Re: \'Don\'t support the RNLI\'.

Gave 15 years of my life to them as crew.......laterly as a 2nd Cox.In that period at times I saw an amazing ammount of waste and squandering of hard earned money that could have been avoided...Just take a look at the money spent in building new boat houses......do they really have to be that grand to provide the function they do??....yes I am worried that if things dont change they will start losing the support of those that have kept them going in the past.

Paul.
 
Re: \'Don\'t support the RNLI\'.

[ QUOTE ]
They have usually been created by locals. If they want to be independent of the RNLI, why should they not be allowed to make that decision. RNLI have no right to be the complete national lifeboat service if others wish to provide similar services. They are all voluntary and charitable, just that some larger than others

[/ QUOTE ]

I would also add that the independant units around our coasts provide a valuable inshore service, which is of course why MCA are happy to use them. I see the independants as an enhancement to the stirling work already carried on by the RNLI.
 
Re: \'Don\'t support the RNLI\'.

[ QUOTE ]
Gave 15 years of my life to them as crew.......laterly as a 2nd Cox.In that period at times I saw an amazing ammount of waste and squandering of hard earned money that could have been avoided...Just take a look at the money spent in building new boat houses......do they really have to be that grand to provide the function they do??....yes I am worried that if things dont change they will start losing the support of those that have kept them going in the past.

Paul.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe the thinking is to build 'em "grand" so that they last a long time and need less maintenance? ergo, ongoing costs are less?

Personally, I feel that nothing is too good for them, and you have my appreciation for the time you gave.
 
Re: \'Don\'t support the RNLI\'.

[ QUOTE ]
What are the salaries of the top officials?
Do they travel by air other than coach?
Do they stay in other than 3 star hotels?
Do they have 'expense' accounts?
What are the cars they are provided with?
What will their personal pension schemes provide and what percentage of the contribution comes from their salary?
And all that balderdash about attracting the 'right' quality of people for the top job is of course balderdash or worse... Of course they need a reasonable salary - perhaps on a par with trade unions general secretaries. RN 4 ring captains... but - the life of Riley.... not so sure...
Etc.....

Do not forget that every penny comes from a charitable donation of some sort. Not profit, not for success simply the emotional response of ordinary people.

Please answer the above questions... if you dare... they decide on all of the above and nobody questions it... interesting?
Michael

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, I ask you to substantiate what you are saying, I am sure we would all like to know your sources, you obviously "know" what you are talking about, so please do share with us your evidence to support your claims?
 
Re: \'Don\'t support the RNLI\'.

I used to think the same, but they supposedly have to compete with other employers, so altho it's not all expense accounts and jolliness which of course is quite acceptable elsewhere such as er the BBC maybe, they will need marketeers and accountants who ain't cheap, or at least the good ones aren't.

In terms of policing, I believe charities have to spend some actually quite small fraction of profits 7% on their chosen cause, so I imagine it's okay to burn the rest on hotels, lunch etc.
 
Re: \'Don\'t support the RNLI\'.

[ QUOTE ]
These people need to be looked after properly as in any well performing business.

[/ QUOTE ]

But that's the whole point... It is not a business. It is a charity. Funded by charity!

Most western countries cope with search and rescue with a mixture of 'coastguard/customs- military facilities. Many countries like the USA have commercial organisations that will tow you in -- for a fee.. You can pay an annual subscription or a one off 'larger' fee to get 'rescued'.

The RNLI used to be a charitable organisation now I have a feeling that charity begins at the 'top'. Has become a self perpetuating golden goose for some ex Navy personnel.

The UK does not need the RNLI - the same degree of cover could be provided by the RN just as the search and rescue helicopters are provided by the RN/RAF... Of course specialised lifeboats will frequently be better than RN - coastguard - C & E vessels but frequently not...

So who does watch what goes on at the top?? Nobody has answered my list of financial questions on the very very lucrative rewards the top brass at the RNLI decide to give themselves... Even parliament has to make 'pay rises' public!

Michael
 
Re: \'Don\'t support the RNLI\'.

[ QUOTE ]
quite acceptable elsewhere such as er the BBC maybe

[/ QUOTE ] Clearly you have never worked for BBC! And that is a much bigger organisation who is in direct competition with some powerful media organisations.

The whole point is that the RNLI is totally not commercial, not in competition, not controlled except by the charities board in a very general way. It is spending hundreds of thousands daily and apparently burning other peoples money on luxury items for the privileged few at the top is -- not very charitable...
 
Re: \'Don\'t support the RNLI\'.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
These people need to be looked after properly as in any well performing business.

[/ QUOTE ]

But that's the whole point... It is not a business. It is a charity. Funded by charity!

Most western countries cope with search and rescue with a mixture of 'coastguard/customs- military facilities. Many countries like the USA have commercial organisations that will tow you in -- for a fee.. You can pay an annual subscription or a one off 'larger' fee to get 'rescued'.

The RNLI used to be a charitable organisation now I have a feeling that charity begins at the 'top'. Has become a self perpetuating golden goose for some ex Navy personnel.

The UK does not need the RNLI - the same degree of cover could be provided by the RN just as the search and rescue helicopters are provided by the RN/RAF... Of course specialised lifeboats will frequently be better than RN - coastguard - C & E vessels but frequently not...

So who does watch what goes on at the top?? Nobody has answered my list of financial questions on the very very lucrative rewards the top brass at the RNLI decide to give themselves... Even parliament has to make 'pay rises' public!

Michael

[/ QUOTE ]

Mr. Briant, again, I am asking you to substantiate what you are saying, you are the one making these claims. I think it's a bit strange for someone not even living in the UK to be so concerned as you seem to be about the SAR service employed around our coasts??

You are the one that is making these accusations, and not to put to fine a point on it, I find your allegations just a tad distasteful, particularly as they are being made about a fine bunch of people doing difficult and worthwhile job. however, if you can substantiate what you are saying, I am sure we would all be interested to hear about it
 
Re: \'Don\'t support the RNLI\'.

Sorry, i was baiting you with the BBC jibe.

I agree that there is probably a whole tier of wasteful worthless figurehead type officials and the rnli may as well shoot them or push them overboard, especially seeing as how most large orgainsations and plenty of small ones have the same.
 
Re: \'Don\'t support the RNLI\'.

all the major charities employ a broad spectrum of employees. Marketing, IT, sales, retail management etc etc. They pay market rates for these, or they get the crap that no one else will employ. They are large businesses, and need business skills to make them run.

If you try to do it on the cheap, you end up with the position of years ago, where the retails charity shops were losing money, even though they had free or pepporcorn rents. If run as a business like now, the retail shops make decent money for the charities
 
Re: \'Don\'t support the RNLI\'.

[ QUOTE ]
What are the salaries of the top officials?
Do they travel by air other than coach?
Do they stay in other than 3 star hotels?
Do they have 'expense' accounts?
What are the cars they are provided with?
What will their personal pension schemes provide and what percentage of the contribution comes from their salary?
And all that balderdash about attracting the 'right' quality of people for the top job is of course balderdash or worse... Of course they need a reasonable salary - perhaps on a par with trade unions general secretaries. RN 4 ring captains... but - the life of Riley.... not so sure...
Etc.....

Do not forget that every penny comes from a charitable donation of some sort. Not profit, not for success simply the emotional response of ordinary people.

Please answer the above questions... if you dare... they decide on all of the above and nobody questions it... interesting?
Michael

[/ QUOTE ]
I ask you to substantiate what you are saying.........

Answers to the above very reasonable questions are the entire problem... Public knowledge that is kept under wraps!!!
 
Re: \'Don\'t support the RNLI\'.

Get in the real world, all the top charities are run like businesses, thats how they stay there. You've seen the street canvassers, the primetime TV ads etc.. They employ consultants, tax advisors, ad agencies, just like business does. You may not like the hard sell aspect, how many times have I crossed the street to avoid them, but charities compete like business, they have to or else they lose out. BUT-Charities are governed by government commission, they have to be utterly transparent and salaries/benefits are set by strict guidelines, unlike most business. Thats the difference. I think the public get better value from the RNLI than any government run agency.
 
Re: \'Don\'t support the RNLI\'.

I can not speak for other organisations , but If you go to web site at the original posting you will see GAFIRS History explained far better than I could here.l (It is being updated at the moment, one of our crew is a school teacher at a local school and they working on it as a school projet!)

All servics, (if need be), work together and are not in competition except for a bit of healthy commarade.

Any one can set up a lifeboat station but, I think If the CG think they are not 'up to scratch' and just a 'wanna be ' organisation the CG will not recognise them as a rescue service and therefore not use them. (as I understand It)
 
Re: \'Don\'t support the RNLI\'.

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, i was baiting you with the BBC jibe.

I agree that there is probably a whole tier of wasteful worthless figurehead type officials and the RNLI may as well shoot them or push them overboard, especially seeing as how most large organisation's and plenty of small ones have the same.

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
a fine bunch of people doing difficult and worthwhile job.

[/ QUOTE ] I have a lot of very good friends amongst lifeboat crew and have worked with them on several occasions. Had dealings in a more professional way as well...

Please do not confuse my comments about the half dozen top brass with the modestly paid mechanics/coxswain and very volunteer crew... No problem with them.. In fact if they were better paid it would do no harm at all. However the re numeration and 'perks' of the few are not quite in the same league... fill in the answers to my questions about the top brass perks and pay and then... say all is perfect at the top!

Michael
 
Re: \'Don\'t support the RNLI\'.

[ QUOTE ]
all the major charities employ a broad spectrum of employees. Marketing, IT, sales, retail management etc etc.

[/ QUOTE ] and 'hopefully' they get quotes and check out the abilities of the freelance peoples they employ.. The folks at the top of the RNLI decide on their own remuneration and perks and make sure they are 'just' within the acceptable limits of the charity commission. This limit is 'skewed' because of the success in fund raising and the daily spend... So charity begins at the top!
 
Re: \'Don\'t support the RNLI\'.

This is a problem with our society, the guy at the coalface gets little reward for being in danger whilst man at the top takes all the credit in comfort. Firemen, nurses, paramedics included in that too. Fix this before critisising an organisation for living in the real world.
We're all equal , its just some are more equal than others!!!
 
Re: \'Don\'t support the RNLI\'.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What are the salaries of the top officials?
Do they travel by air other than coach?
Do they stay in other than 3 star hotels?
Do they have 'expense' accounts?
What are the cars they are provided with?
What will their personal pension schemes provide and what percentage of the contribution comes from their salary?
And all that balderdash about attracting the 'right' quality of people for the top job is of course balderdash or worse... Of course they need a reasonable salary - perhaps on a par with trade unions general secretaries. RN 4 ring captains... but - the life of Riley.... not so sure...
Etc.....

Do not forget that every penny comes from a charitable donation of some sort. Not profit, not for success simply the emotional response of ordinary people.

Please answer the above questions... if you dare... they decide on all of the above and nobody questions it... interesting?
Michael

[/ QUOTE ]
I ask you to substantiate what you are saying.........

Answers to the above very reasonable questions are the entire problem... Public knowledge that is kept under wraps!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

The above post seems to be answering yourself, but I will assume it was meant to answer me?

Mr Briant, I am not saying anything, I am however still waiting for you to substantiate what you are saying. You are the one that is making these allegations, I am neither denying or confirming what you are saying. I am just waiting for you to provide evidence for what YOU ARE SAYING?

Now if you have difficulty with that, I would suggest that it would be a good idea, that maybe you kept your opinions, (for that is all they are at the moment) to yourself.

I am tempted to simply write you off as a TROLL, but I will be happy to peruse your evidence, as I am sure many other forumites will be, should you be able to provide any?
 
Re: \'Don\'t support the RNLI\'.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
quite acceptable elsewhere such as er the BBC maybe

[/ QUOTE ] Clearly you have never worked for BBC! And that is a much bigger organisation who is in direct competition with some powerful media organisations.

The whole point is that the RNLI is totally not commercial, not in competition, not controlled except by the charities board in a very general way. It is spending hundreds of thousands daily and apparently burning other peoples money on luxury items for the privileged few at the top is -- not very charitable...

[/ QUOTE ]

My daughter does work for the BBC so I do know something of the way that outfit wastes public money on performing egos. And as a consumer of the output I know that it is very poor (and extremely repetitive) value for money.

The problem with the RNLI is that like the nursing profession and Caesar's wife they are beyond reproach. We are all grateful for the work they do, non more so that those they rescue. But that doesnt mean that they operate efficiently or thriftily with the money the public gives them. Nor does it mean that they shopild have the best of everything irrespective of cost.

Its a law of organisational life that every outfit bloats. Managers have their empires. Hobby horses are ridden. Good ideas dont work out but the remnant costs are left. And looking from the outside my impression is that the RYA has got a dose of that problem. What the crew member above says from the inside supports it. As do the flash premises - shades of the NHS there!

To repeat, it doesnt mean that the employees arent doing a good job and arent needed. It just means that its clearout time.

Incidentally, is it not still the case that the frontline rescue crews dont get paid but the back room admin does so? Why is that? If people can risk their lives for nothing , why cant admin types risk their typing finger for the same? And what about making use of the lots of early retired managers / service officers who dont need paying?
 
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