Don't forget your halyard swivel!

[dom]

I suffered the dreaded halyard wrap entering Cowes a few weeks ago - so emergency gybe and back into Solent to sort. I could see with the binos that the halyard ( I have a halyard deflector) had not wrapped around the forestay, so down came the genny and back into Cowes. A whizz up the mast found the forestay in perfect condition. I found that the halyard swivel rotated beautifully when not under tension, but became stiff as a you like under tension (tested with strop to drum).

I asked a rigger to have a look and he informed me: (i) that the Facnor halyard swivel is not serviceable, (ii) that the problem arose from the inadequate ball bearings used by Facnor, (iii) that the furler should not be rotated under full halyard tension and (iv) that the main drum typically failed soon after the halyard swivel. He quoted for an entire new system (big bucks from a different manufacturer).

So I called a Facnor agent in France who I know well. He told me that it is very important to rinse out halyard swivel at least twice a year and more often if there is a lot of building dust around. He also told me that the system is specifically designed (indeed required by the VOR 70 fleet) to be operated under high tension. I admitted that I had forgotten to do this for the past few years, but he said don't worry, do the following and call back:

1. Rinse the swivel through with a running hose for about half an hour giving the swivel a really good aggressive shake and a spin every few minutes
2. Squirt in some WD40 Silicone Lube and spin the swivel, then load it and some more, then more WD40 Silicone Lube and more spinning.
3. Flush again with water and then add more Lube!

All very odd, but gave it a try after which the swivel worked perfectly, absolutely perfectly. It might be worth having a read of the destructions for your specific forestay roller if you've been a bit slack on the maintenance like me. Also, always call the manufacturer direct before discarding something and be a bit careful of the so called experts, especially when they have a vested interest in selling you something!

 

[prv]

Ta. No sign of trouble with ours, but I've added it to the list for a little TLC next winter.

Pete

 

[Angele]

Just to clarify, that would be silicone spray (doesn't have to be WD40's version, there are other brands) and not normal WD40. So far as I am aware the latter is made from fish oil and causes additional build up of dust/crud.

How many times do you have to hoist/drop in order to complete step 2? My Genny goes up at the start of the season and down at the end.

 

[Pinnacle]

Dom

We had a Facnor furler on our Beneteau. We too had difficulty rolling the genny away when the halyard tension was on ( a lot ). A close inspection of the forestay showed that due to the non-operation of the halyard deflector (the round black plastic thing) the action of trying to furl the genny was unwinding the lay of the strands on the wire forestay. This all happened in the first 4 inches or so after the wire had emerged from the top fitting. Yikes! We got the local rigger to supply and fit a new forestay and a completely new furling system. I appreciate you say "A whizz up the mast found the forestay in perfect condition.", but based upon our experience I would want to be 1000% sure that the lay of the individual stainless wires was not being unwound just where it enters the end fitting. We both know that if it has been weakened, it will fail, at night, on a beat, just off a lee shore when its blowing >25kts!
This will hopefully show what I was referring to;

 

[prv]

Just to clarify, that would be silicone spray (doesn't have to be WD40's version, there are other brands) and not normal WD40.

Indeed, WD40 is a water displacer, not a lubricant. I keep a can to spray on outboard HT leads, but I'll be using the rig lube stuff (can in the locker, can't remember the name) on my swivel.

How many times do you have to hoist/drop in order to complete step 2?

Well, I'm not going to go through the full procedure, which may not even be applicable to my Selden unit. Just flush it well with water and spray with lube. But if you were following the steps above, there's surely no need to hoist a sail. Just attach a short lanyard between the tack fitting and the swivel and then load up the halyard. Or even cleat off the halyard and pull the swivel downwards with a tackle.

Pete

 

[Daydream believer]

Dom

We had a Facnor furler on our Beneteau. We too had difficulty rolling the genny away when the halyard tension was on ( a lot ). A close inspection of the forestay showed that due to the non-operation of the halyard deflector (the round black plastic thing) the action of trying to furl the genny was unwinding the lay of the strands on the wire forestay. This all happened in the first 4 inches or so after the wire had emerged from the top fitting. Yikes! We got the local rigger to supply and fit a new forestay and a completely new furling system. I appreciate you say "A whizz up the mast found the forestay in perfect condition.", but based upon our experience I would want to be 1000% sure that the lay of the individual stainless wires was not being unwound just where it enters the end fitting. We both know that if it has been weakened, it will fail, at night, on a beat, just off a lee shore when its blowing >25kts!
Read more at http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...t-your-halyard-swivel!#dEfRRKOLqYK8f8q3.99you have

On my forestay ( with Facnor) i have also had the forestay unstrand. The twisting effect was so great that the shackle that joined forestay to mast actually twisted by about 30 degrees

 

[vyv_cox]

Funny though. I have had a Facnor furler since 2003. I have never done any maintenance on it at all except for hosing the drum occasionally. I don't think I have even considere the top swivel. Never had a moment's problem with it, which is a lot more than I can say for the Furlex that it replaced.

 

[dje67]

The Facnor gear is serviceable, and the thread below shows what I found:-

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?381020-Facnor-SD165-Upper-Swivel-Bearings

And another:-

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?398938-something-not-right-with-my-furling-gear

.... with links to yet some more useful threads.

My furler is now on its second summer since being overhauled and it still works like a dream.

 

[dom]

Just to clarify, that would be silicone spray (doesn't have to be WD40's version, there are other brands) and not normal WD40. So far as I am aware the latter is made from fish oil and causes additional build up of dust/crud.

How many times do you have to hoist/drop in order to complete step 2? My Genny goes up at the start of the season and down at the end.

All good points:

1. Yes, any silicone lubricant would work just as well. However, some furlers apparently need to be greased so best to consult manufacturer specs for different kit
2. The riggers I know emphasised the importance of flushing the swivel out twice a year (with soapy water if there's regular WD40/other oil in it) and then respraying with silicone. FWIW they expressed amazement at the number of furlers needlessly ditched on the grounds of bearing failures, or fears of impending bearing failure; furlers after all only turn a millionth as much as say wheel bearings!
3. Finally re tensioning; I just unshackled the sail (to avoid staining it really) and connected the halyard swivel to the drum using a 1 m strop -- one can then turn the swivel by hand to see how it feels, i.e. nice and smooth or any stiff bits.

I am sure flushing and spraying once a year is fine, but apparently 2x is a really good idea if there is building dust around, which can apparently clog up a swivel surprisingly quickly.

 

[dom]

Dom

We had a Facnor furler on our Beneteau. We too had difficulty rolling the genny away when the halyard tension was on ( a lot ). A close inspection of the forestay showed that due to the non-operation of the halyard deflector (the round black plastic thing) the action of trying to furl the genny was unwinding the lay of the strands on the wire forestay. This all happened in the first 4 inches or so after the wire had emerged from the top fitting. Yikes! We got the local rigger to supply and fit a new forestay and a completely new furling system. I appreciate you say "A whizz up the mast found the forestay in perfect condition.", but based upon our experience I would want to be 1000% sure that the lay of the individual stainless wires was not being unwound just where it enters the end fitting. We both know that if it has been weakened, it will fail, at night, on a beat, just off a lee shore when its blowing >25kts!
This will hopefully show what I was referring to;

View attachment 52692

Hmm, interesting and perplexing in equal measure as your halyard deflector looks well placed (correct angle) so no probs there. Also the foil's end stop (required for furling foil to freely rotate around forestay) appears to be in place.

Now you say the wire unravelled during furling and unfurling. The thing is there should be NO rotational force on the forestay whatsoever, no matter how stiff the halyard swivel is and even if you put the furling line onto a winch! The rotational force is all carried in the furling foil which will in the end blow apart (if you're going completely nuts on the winch!) leaving a perfectly good forestay behind.

So why all of these "never put a furling line on a winch" warnings? First up, come on we've all done, Lithuanian strongmen exempted! The trouble arises if one wraps a halyard (and you have 3x possible culprits up there!) around the forestay. This could happen if any single one of those was left a bit loose. And following a halyard wrap any serious tension on the furling line will destroy your forestay and furling foil beyond repair. My guess is that got a loose halyard wrapped around your forestay above the furling foil and that this is what destroyed your stay.

I fully agree with your points re inspecting wires:

1. Most rig wires are 1x19 and most end fittings are attached by unravelling the outer 12 wires; the fitting is slid over the 7x strand core and then then everything tightened up. You are right to say that it is (a) not possible to visually inspect the inner core, (b) wire will will naturally risk failure after a fixed period of time depending on use/atmospheric conditions and (c) when it does it will be on a lee shore with 25kts of wind! AFAIK this is why one replaces wire after a set period of time to allow for a good error margin: I understand that 15 yrs is about right for a lightly used cruiser in this part of the world (racing boats can require annual changes!).
2. But if we can't assess the risk of perfectly healthy looking old wire, what one can do is take the odd whizz up the mast to inspect for any sign of torque induced unravelling in the outer 12x strands where the wire is attached to its end fitting. Given the risk of unseen halyard wrap damage it has got to be worth inspecting the forestay at fairly reular intervals I would have thought.

Vyv Cox will be the true expert on this topic, so might be interesting to hear his view.

 

[Woodlouse]

Latest thinking is don't use silicone or PTFE lubricants. They attract dirt which stops the bearings spinning which then results in them wearing down resulting in flat spots which further reduce their effectiveness. McLube now do an oil based product called 'one drop' especially for lubricating roller and ball bearings. One (or two) drops of that once a year should be all you need.

 

[Racecruiser]

I would be silly not to pop this link in here to my Facnor Halyard swivel for sale - recent and in good nick! Open to a sensible offer .........

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?435270-Facnor-Halyard-Swivel-CX30-for-SD-Furler

By the way the only time we got a halyard wrap with the Facnor system was when the jib halyard tension was eased (quite a lot by mistake) before furling.

 

[30boat]

Thought I'd post this picture.Happened to a friend of mine.Since the unwinding wasn't too bad I advised him to fit a Stalok as a temporary repair.As far as I know it became permanent.The date on the photo is wrong by the way,it was taken in 2013.

 

[Pinnacle]

Thought I'd post this picture.Happened to a friend of mine.Since the unwinding wasn't too bad I advised him to fit a Stalok as a temporary repair.As far as I know it became permanent.The date on the photo is wrong by the way,it was taken in 2013.

Ours was like that, but worse!

 

[dje67]

That looks like a different style of diverter to the one on my own setup. The picture above looks like the diverter is rigidly attached to the forestay, so I can see how a wrap could easily unwind the forestay. On mine (SD 165), the diverter is free to rotate (on a sort of bearing) so that a wrap shouldn't put any twist onto the forestay.

 

[orangemikey]

Just a note to make sure you wash the drum of salt aswell as it has mild steel circlips inside! Went to furl mine one day and ended up with hundreds of ball bearings rolling along the deck. Tbf even then it was possible to take apart and replace bearings and circlips and now as good as new.