guardian
Well-Known Member
Exactly! I had this epiphany in 2013 when i realised i was in so deep financially that it was as insane to stop as it was to carry on.......................
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Doing old grp boats up
- Thread starter Wansworth
- Start date
Exactly! I had this epiphany in 2013 when i realised i was in so deep financially that it was as insane to stop as it was to carry on.......................
Ribtecer
Well-Known Member
Roger you have to keep going, you've come so far. I've been following the project since you had the boat in your front garden.
What happened to that Scottish chap Derek that was doing a similar thing to a Konsort?
I can understand its a long time, but in percentages, how far do you think you are?
DownWest
Well-Known Member
If you want insane projects, I am building a a 17ft minicruiser. Then Steve puts his 18ft ,ready to go one on the for sale section at £300. Ya can't make it up..
guardian
Well-Known Member
Yeah Derek, he threw the towel in and was selling up to a couple of brothers the last time I spoke to him. With regards my own project its merely pretty stuff that needs doing but just dont have the time or inclination right now. I started back a couple of months ago after a three year hiatus as i couldn't stand the sight of it so went off and totally rebuilt my van instead, i must say vehicles are so much easier and cheaper to restore than boats.
But yeah i'll be back to the boat proper for one last push this year.
Project here: www.agentlemansyacht.com &
Pictures here: www.centaurphotoalbum.com
Cheers
RupertW
Well-Known Member
But you can get a boat for almost nothing in good working and sometimes good cosmetic order if it’s below 30 feet, so you might as well go for the best you can get for a grand and still have plenty of work to do as long as you don’t mind giving it away at the end.
oldharry
Well-Known Member
The fundamental flaw in OPs argument is that after the war there were very few decent boats around, so buying and doing up an ex WD hull was for many the only way in. Quite a few people had a lot more time than nowadays, parts and timber were cheap. The opposite is true now. People dont have much time, and there its a buyers market with second hand boats. GRP killed off the doer-upper, because unlike wood its expensive, and a plank of decent timber or even a few sheets of 'proper' marine ply - not the far eastern core board rubbish stamped Bull sh+t 1088 that passes for it costs an arm and a leg nowadays.
SiteSurfer
Well-Known Member
I think that many younger folks now have so little time with all the life pressures that spending weeks/months/years arse up in a smelly old knacker chasing a dream that's managing to hurt your wallet in tandem with destroying your enthusiasm in the first place is not high on their priority.
However I also believe that sellers need to remove the rose tinted glasses and come to terms with the concept that their pride and joy may be worth significantly less now than they think it should be, there's probably no chance that their "investment" is going to pay off, but they cling on to the hope - paying more and more yard bills which they try to recoup within the sale price. I've bought two boats in the last 5 years (so yes I am for all intents and purposes a noob!) but learnt a valuable lesson after the first one - which cost me almost double what I paid after doing what I felt was needed (myself) and took away a significant amount of time from my enjoyment.
Second boat was a completely different animal, ready to go but needed improvements along the way - I was able to negotiate a very competitive price and sailed her away after two weekends work to satisfy the survey requirements. Lesson learnt.
Looking at listings it's clear that folks still believe that their "yacht" has value over and above reality. Personally when it comes time to shift our current boat ready for the retirement vessel - I won't be worrying about getting my money back, I consider it done the day we purchased and any return is a bonus not a given.
Incidentally, my first boat was priced properly, cleaned properly and well presented - it sold to the fourth viewer along with the ridiculous amount of "improvements" to it which made absolutely no difference to the sale price.
However I also believe that sellers need to remove the rose tinted glasses and come to terms with the concept that their pride and joy may be worth significantly less now than they think it should be, there's probably no chance that their "investment" is going to pay off, but they cling on to the hope - paying more and more yard bills which they try to recoup within the sale price. I've bought two boats in the last 5 years (so yes I am for all intents and purposes a noob!) but learnt a valuable lesson after the first one - which cost me almost double what I paid after doing what I felt was needed (myself) and took away a significant amount of time from my enjoyment.
Second boat was a completely different animal, ready to go but needed improvements along the way - I was able to negotiate a very competitive price and sailed her away after two weekends work to satisfy the survey requirements. Lesson learnt.
Looking at listings it's clear that folks still believe that their "yacht" has value over and above reality. Personally when it comes time to shift our current boat ready for the retirement vessel - I won't be worrying about getting my money back, I consider it done the day we purchased and any return is a bonus not a given.
Incidentally, my first boat was priced properly, cleaned properly and well presented - it sold to the fourth viewer along with the ridiculous amount of "improvements" to it which made absolutely no difference to the sale price.
LittleSister
Well-Known Member
But probably quite a difference to the saleability.
waynes world
Well-Known Member
Well my quid worth.
It all comes down to money in so many ways and `can i be bothered` or `have i the ability to get a boat i want` .
First money, if you can afford to go and spend thousands on a boat ready to go or even need a quick fettle to make one as you want it. then folk do. To a lot of folk to spend one lump sum of the amounts we are talking about on a boat which is a luxury is like wining the lottery. These are the folk in many cases that dont understand why folk build there own or refurb/rebuild one to get what they want. Then there are the folk in the situation that would love to do what keen DIY boat builders do but dont have the skills.
The there are the strap for cash/skint folk that want/think they can get a cheap boat and do a bit of work on it and its all roses. Far from as we all know, i hope, that boats are not cheap in either way.
I myself hate to see any boat go to scrap and think that folk instead of splashing out on a new boat should rebuild one atleast a quick tidy up. Its a shame this happens all to much around the UK and i am sure around the world.
Then the loons of the boating world......which i am happy to be in.
I earn very little, minimum wage doing 12hr days payee work. plus building my own boat works business when i get work in and doing my boat projects after Payee work is done, as in the recent one i have got which i doubt will cost me near twice its value if i was to sell it complete.
To me its a hobby and an illness as i have been told but i love it and would love more folk to do the same, maybe not to my extent, but in reality folk just cant be bothered.
Its not about having time to make your dream come true its making time which is always there and if you dont make time you will never make your dream reality.
Just to finish as the OP mentions.
You get what you want,
Also a boat you know, that has been built correctly and you trust. I see it so many times.
Folk buy a boat and next thing they have no clue whats wrong, even if the even the bilge pump isnt working or can figure out whats wrong with it. The boats i have owned know/knew everything about them and can fix a problem in minutes, now that my friends is the joy of it all and makes a days/weeks boating so much more enjoyable and happy
Captain Faffer
Captain Faffer
It all comes down to money in so many ways and `can i be bothered` or `have i the ability to get a boat i want` .
First money, if you can afford to go and spend thousands on a boat ready to go or even need a quick fettle to make one as you want it. then folk do. To a lot of folk to spend one lump sum of the amounts we are talking about on a boat which is a luxury is like wining the lottery. These are the folk in many cases that dont understand why folk build there own or refurb/rebuild one to get what they want. Then there are the folk in the situation that would love to do what keen DIY boat builders do but dont have the skills.
The there are the strap for cash/skint folk that want/think they can get a cheap boat and do a bit of work on it and its all roses. Far from as we all know, i hope, that boats are not cheap in either way.
I myself hate to see any boat go to scrap and think that folk instead of splashing out on a new boat should rebuild one atleast a quick tidy up. Its a shame this happens all to much around the UK and i am sure around the world.
Then the loons of the boating world......which i am happy to be in.
I earn very little, minimum wage doing 12hr days payee work. plus building my own boat works business when i get work in and doing my boat projects after Payee work is done, as in the recent one i have got which i doubt will cost me near twice its value if i was to sell it complete.
To me its a hobby and an illness as i have been told but i love it and would love more folk to do the same, maybe not to my extent, but in reality folk just cant be bothered.
Its not about having time to make your dream come true its making time which is always there and if you dont make time you will never make your dream reality.
Just to finish as the OP mentions.
You get what you want,
Also a boat you know, that has been built correctly and you trust. I see it so many times.
Folk buy a boat and next thing they have no clue whats wrong, even if the even the bilge pump isnt working or can figure out whats wrong with it. The boats i have owned know/knew everything about them and can fix a problem in minutes, now that my friends is the joy of it all and makes a days/weeks boating so much more enjoyable and happy
Captain Faffer
Captain Faffer
duncan99210
Well-Known Member
I bought an unloved Hurley 18 about 5 years ago for £400. Outside, it was functional but filthy. Inside required stripping out and refinishing (not removing woodwork but everything else...). It cost me about £750 in materials and yard fees. The I had to get an outboard for it, for about £200. So, a project boat has cost me £1350 before it hit the water.
Then it cost me about £500 for a club mooring before the mooring man inspected it, whereupon it cost me another £350.
So first year costs of ownership were £2200, of which only £400 was the purchase cost.
Don’t get me wrong, I knew what the costs were likely to be before I embarked on the project, as I own a Bavaria 38 which is kept in Greece.
The madness of the thing is that on a cost per days sailing, my little Hurley costs about twice as much as the Bavaria because we get so much more use out of the big boat.
I’ve tried selling the Hurley, even putting it up for £200 gets interest but no one actually turns up and takes the boat away.... I’ve now given up trying to sell her and just shrug my shoulders, pay the bills, keep her up to scratch and enjoy her as I can. But it isn’t a “cheap” route into boating. In fact, I don’t think that there’s any way into boating that can be considered “cheap”; it’s all down to what is affordable to an individual. A boat isn’t like a house, it’s like a car: it’s a depreciating asset which costs you to maintain, service and store whilst it’s capital value goes down.
So why buy a “project” boat at all? Partly because it was (and for me remains) affordable, partly because I like messing about with boats but mostly for the satisfaction gained from taking a mouldering piece of 1960s history and bringing it back to life and taking it out to sea again. And that, frankly, is beyond the mere money involved.
Then it cost me about £500 for a club mooring before the mooring man inspected it, whereupon it cost me another £350.
So first year costs of ownership were £2200, of which only £400 was the purchase cost.
Don’t get me wrong, I knew what the costs were likely to be before I embarked on the project, as I own a Bavaria 38 which is kept in Greece.
The madness of the thing is that on a cost per days sailing, my little Hurley costs about twice as much as the Bavaria because we get so much more use out of the big boat.
I’ve tried selling the Hurley, even putting it up for £200 gets interest but no one actually turns up and takes the boat away.... I’ve now given up trying to sell her and just shrug my shoulders, pay the bills, keep her up to scratch and enjoy her as I can. But it isn’t a “cheap” route into boating. In fact, I don’t think that there’s any way into boating that can be considered “cheap”; it’s all down to what is affordable to an individual. A boat isn’t like a house, it’s like a car: it’s a depreciating asset which costs you to maintain, service and store whilst it’s capital value goes down.
So why buy a “project” boat at all? Partly because it was (and for me remains) affordable, partly because I like messing about with boats but mostly for the satisfaction gained from taking a mouldering piece of 1960s history and bringing it back to life and taking it out to sea again. And that, frankly, is beyond the mere money involved.
Stemar
Well-Known Member
To me its a hobby and an illness
I've said for a long time that I don't have a boating hobby, I have a boating habit. It's like a cocaine habit - missing weekends, finding oneself in cold damp places, empty wallet - only more expensive!
I made the "mistake" of buying Jissel as an OK boat, though with a tired engine at the time when you could reasonably expect to sell an old, but well maintained boat for pretty much what you paid for it. I've probably spent more on her over the 15 years I've had her than her purchase price and I'd be lucky to get half what I paid. That grieves my Yorkshire heart, but it's still probably only £1000 a year or so including fuel & berthing for holidays and lots of weekends, so I shouldn't complain.
I've said for a long time that I don't have a boating hobby, I have a boating habit. It's like a cocaine habit - missing weekends, finding oneself in cold damp places, empty wallet - only more expensive!
I made the "mistake" of buying Jissel as an OK boat, though with a tired engine at the time when you could reasonably expect to sell an old, but well maintained boat for pretty much what you paid for it. I've probably spent more on her over the 15 years I've had her than her purchase price and I'd be lucky to get half what I paid. That grieves my Yorkshire heart, but it's still probably only £1000 a year or so including fuel & berthing for holidays and lots of weekends, so I shouldn't complain.
newtothis
Well-Known Member
There used to be (maybe still is) a concept of "bangernomics" with old cars. Buy an end of life car with enough MOT to be viable, use until it fails MOT, then have scrap merchant pick it up for free. Rinse and repeat for low-cost motoring.
If I could pick up a sub-£500 boat and use it to pootle about in, safe in the knowledge that when it stops being viable I can move on to the next one, I would. The problem with yachts is there is no low-cost end of life option (unless you have a friend who will come out with you to somewhere deep and bring you home after you've opened the seacocks).
If I could pick up a sub-£500 boat and use it to pootle about in, safe in the knowledge that when it stops being viable I can move on to the next one, I would. The problem with yachts is there is no low-cost end of life option (unless you have a friend who will come out with you to somewhere deep and bring you home after you've opened the seacocks).
Lightwave395
Well-Known Member
I have an old plastic GP14 on my drive so I have something in which to potter around Newtown and adjacent waters when not in Brittany.
I bought it in a sound but untidy state for £30 complete with spars, spi pole, spinnaker and a trailer which just needed wheel bearings (£17 on ebay) and tubes for the tyres (£8 on ebay)
I stripped and refurbished it steadfastly resisting the urge to 'update' it's gear in the process, biggest expense was a secondhand jib ( £6 on ebay) and mainsail (Musto in remarkable condition, £20, again on ebay), other required items have been various screws and bits all found lurking in my man cave boat box.
The objective was to enjoy refurbishing it and not spend any more than I could sell the trailer for - objective achieved, it certainly won't win any races but it looks quite smart and works for playing around aboard with (and without) grandchildren
By contrast, I've recently spent £800 odd on new engine mounts and a PSS shaft seal for my other boat... (I don't care though)
I bought it in a sound but untidy state for £30 complete with spars, spi pole, spinnaker and a trailer which just needed wheel bearings (£17 on ebay) and tubes for the tyres (£8 on ebay)
I stripped and refurbished it steadfastly resisting the urge to 'update' it's gear in the process, biggest expense was a secondhand jib ( £6 on ebay) and mainsail (Musto in remarkable condition, £20, again on ebay), other required items have been various screws and bits all found lurking in my man cave boat box.
The objective was to enjoy refurbishing it and not spend any more than I could sell the trailer for - objective achieved, it certainly won't win any races but it looks quite smart and works for playing around aboard with (and without) grandchildren
By contrast, I've recently spent £800 odd on new engine mounts and a PSS shaft seal for my other boat... (I don't care though)
Mark-1
Well-Known Member
I bought a Corribbee that came with three months Marina Mooring on that basis. I figured if someone offered to hire me a boat at that price for three months I'd bite their hand off and it could be chainsawed up at the end of the three months. A couple of years later I've spent north of 10 grand on it.
Not sure how practical chainsawing is unless you can transport the boat and have some land where it's practical to do the job. I'm not sure they'd let you do it on the hard at Itchenor.
...and if there was you wouldn't be able to pick boats up for peanuts because they would no longer be a liability.
Keith 66
Well-Known Member
I have rebuilt two grp production yachts, Now im a boatbuilder by trade so should know what im doing.
The first was an Anderson 22, we outgrew it & upgraded to a Sabre 27 fin keeler.
The Anderson cost enough, the Sabre i stopped counting halfway through. 9 years on i dare not add up all that i have spent on her.
Sure she was dirt cheap but new engine, stern gear, rudder, keelbolts, wiring, headlining, fittings, rigging, sails, furling gear, windows, repaint, etc etc, it all adds up.
Recently my mum passed away & a legacy came my way, I thought "I could buy that boat i always wanted" Saw one for sale & realised i could easily do the same rebuild all over again. Another of the same class was up for sale at twice the price. I suddenly realised that i would be better of buying the boat that some mug had already done all his dough on!
The first was an Anderson 22, we outgrew it & upgraded to a Sabre 27 fin keeler.
The Anderson cost enough, the Sabre i stopped counting halfway through. 9 years on i dare not add up all that i have spent on her.
Sure she was dirt cheap but new engine, stern gear, rudder, keelbolts, wiring, headlining, fittings, rigging, sails, furling gear, windows, repaint, etc etc, it all adds up.
Recently my mum passed away & a legacy came my way, I thought "I could buy that boat i always wanted" Saw one for sale & realised i could easily do the same rebuild all over again. Another of the same class was up for sale at twice the price. I suddenly realised that i would be better of buying the boat that some mug had already done all his dough on!
theluckyone17
New Member
It ain't about what it's worth to other folk; I figure it's all about it's worth to me.
I lucked out. Neighborhood yacht club repossessed a Centaur for unpaid storage fees. Prior owner was on the tail end of a refit, and he walked away from it. Don't know why exactly, but he left behind some personal belongings that implies he was of the starving artist mentality. Did some good work on the boat, but it's not completely finished yet.
Anyhow, nobody bid on the boat at the public auction (required for a lien sale), and I picked it up cheaper ($500) than the cost of the backowed storage fees. She's going to require more cash than that to finish up and outfit proper. Yacht club gained a member out of the deal ($1,900 for the first year), and I'll stick around as long as I can rig up a reliable A-frame to raise & lower the mast, getting in and out of the Erie Canal and over to the Hudson.
Some folk spend money on alcohol. Others go golfing. Some buy expensive cars. Others buy aircraft. Some gamble. Others play the market. Some of those folk lose a lot of money, some make money. Ain't a one of them taking it with them when they die.
Me, I enjoy working on stuff. Fixing up an old (older than me, at least) boat, especially one that was build over in England? That's something. It'll mean something to me, seeing that '69 sail again. She's big enough to be a home, if I need to get away for a few weeks/months. Big enough to hop down the coast to warmer temps (or back up to cooler weather). Some might say a 26' is tight living; I spent a fair chunk of my teens living in a trailer, sharing an already small bedroom with my brother. Luxury it ain't, but she could keep me warm & dry 'nough. A spot to sleep, to cook, to stay out of the weather, with the means to move her on if need be. Life gets rough enough, I might be very satisfied in that boat. Until then, she'll be a great spot to spend the weekends on, spend time with friends and family, and live life for as long as I got some.
She might cost a bit of money to get there, but what she'll provide in return is worth so much more to me. Won't be looking to sell her off to anyone else, so whatever they think about her worth don't matter much.
I lucked out. Neighborhood yacht club repossessed a Centaur for unpaid storage fees. Prior owner was on the tail end of a refit, and he walked away from it. Don't know why exactly, but he left behind some personal belongings that implies he was of the starving artist mentality. Did some good work on the boat, but it's not completely finished yet.
Anyhow, nobody bid on the boat at the public auction (required for a lien sale), and I picked it up cheaper ($500) than the cost of the backowed storage fees. She's going to require more cash than that to finish up and outfit proper. Yacht club gained a member out of the deal ($1,900 for the first year), and I'll stick around as long as I can rig up a reliable A-frame to raise & lower the mast, getting in and out of the Erie Canal and over to the Hudson.
Some folk spend money on alcohol. Others go golfing. Some buy expensive cars. Others buy aircraft. Some gamble. Others play the market. Some of those folk lose a lot of money, some make money. Ain't a one of them taking it with them when they die.
Me, I enjoy working on stuff. Fixing up an old (older than me, at least) boat, especially one that was build over in England? That's something. It'll mean something to me, seeing that '69 sail again. She's big enough to be a home, if I need to get away for a few weeks/months. Big enough to hop down the coast to warmer temps (or back up to cooler weather). Some might say a 26' is tight living; I spent a fair chunk of my teens living in a trailer, sharing an already small bedroom with my brother. Luxury it ain't, but she could keep me warm & dry 'nough. A spot to sleep, to cook, to stay out of the weather, with the means to move her on if need be. Life gets rough enough, I might be very satisfied in that boat. Until then, she'll be a great spot to spend the weekends on, spend time with friends and family, and live life for as long as I got some.
She might cost a bit of money to get there, but what she'll provide in return is worth so much more to me. Won't be looking to sell her off to anyone else, so whatever they think about her worth don't matter much.
Wansworth
Well-Known Member
O
Wansworth
Well-Known Member
In these difficult days nice to find some optimism!
gertha
Well-Known Member
It seams to me the old boat market in the UK may be in for a major boost.
My thought is as this summer progresses the breaks will come off and we will be allowed to move about, however foreign travel will be a lot more difficult and expensive.
Many UK people will be scratching there heads on how to have a fun cheap holiday in there own country, also many families are suddenly living together in a way that has never happened.
In the next few months values will change. Society may value time and fun with loved ones as more important than time at work.
This forum has a wealth of knowledge, it can help and support people who have an idea to buy into an old boat.
If you take an old sail boat and scrap all the expensive rig and sails, restore the engine, you have a cheap fun accommodation that can potter around sheltered waters.
From my own point of view I bought a 1983 boat 3 years ago and have spent half the purchase price again on restoration.
As they say in France I regret nothing.
simon
My thought is as this summer progresses the breaks will come off and we will be allowed to move about, however foreign travel will be a lot more difficult and expensive.
Many UK people will be scratching there heads on how to have a fun cheap holiday in there own country, also many families are suddenly living together in a way that has never happened.
In the next few months values will change. Society may value time and fun with loved ones as more important than time at work.
This forum has a wealth of knowledge, it can help and support people who have an idea to buy into an old boat.
If you take an old sail boat and scrap all the expensive rig and sails, restore the engine, you have a cheap fun accommodation that can potter around sheltered waters.
From my own point of view I bought a 1983 boat 3 years ago and have spent half the purchase price again on restoration.
As they say in France I regret nothing.
simon
Kurrawong_Kid
Well-Known Member
I don’t quite get this! If you want to go sailing, as opposed to buying an old boat, tarting her up and selling for a profit, then this is the time to buy. If you find a reasonably maintained well respected craft (eg. Centaur, Elizabethan 30, Sigma 33, Moody 31 etc. etc.) craft with an OK engine at a bargain price then all it takes is washing, cleaning, elbow grease polishing, varnishing and freeing up all the blocks; and then you are off. Never been as cheap. Take the opportunity.