Dogs

We are Solent based and have taken dogs sailing for 20 years or so. It used to be unusual to see other boats with dogs on, now it is quite common. A lot of marinas are dog friendly and some are even known (by my Labrador) to keep biscuits in the office. One of the better ones even has a dog walking area...
 
We are off on an Atlantic circuit with two dogs. Coming back via our yacht with dogs looks like a major headache. Our current thoughts are we will need to fly them back from the Caribbean at huge cost. We will then be faced with the prospect of finding somebody to look after them whilst we sail the boat across the Atlantic.
If anybody can think of another way around this, we would be interested to hear.
 
Atlantic circuit with 2 dogs sounds a lot of fun. Obviously you have done your homework and found the islands that are def. not dog friendly! :( Hope you dogs are little'uns :)
Anyway your quandary is no different from anyone taking their pet to France. Make landfall there and arrange for someone to accompany them across the Channel & meet up the other side.
btw you will still need the dogs blood tested if traveling outside approved countries and wanting to return to UK.
 
geem said:
We are off on an Atlantic circuit with two dogs. Coming back via our yacht with dogs looks like a major headache. Our current thoughts are we will need to fly them back from the Caribbean at huge cost. We will then be faced with the prospect of finding somebody to look after them whilst we sail the boat across the Atlantic.
If anybody can think of another way around this, we would be interested to hear.
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Upon return from the Caribbean, why not land the dogs in France and repatriate them to the UK from there?
Altogether, cheaper faster and more convenient.
 
SimonD said:
It might be useful to know how many people would want to take their dog abroad, but how would we find out? Does anyone even know how many boat owners sail with a dog in UK waters? The best we can say is that it's likely to be a significant number, i.e. enough to pose a risk to bio security.

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Simon
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I think it would be difficult to come up with any accurate figures - and the current rules probably deter some sailors from taking on pets that they really would like to have. Certainly, when our last cat died, we took a reasoned decision to not replace him because we wanted the freedom to sail more - but, inevitably, a little homeless waif turned up! In his case, we insisted that he should become a sailor and he is now perfectly happy on the boat - to the point where he does not limit our freedom - only the current pet passport rules do that.

In our marina (around 300 boats?), we have around a dozen friends with cats and/or dogs - and I'm sure there are quite a few more that we simply don't know about because they leave the pet at home. I don't see any reason to believe that the rate of pet ownership amongst sailors is significantly different to that in the general population - and that must be a published statistic. Not everyone will want to take their cat or dog abroad, but I suspect that quite a few would if the rules were less restrictive.
 
Probably just as well to make up the figures - who is going to check?

Look at the dog owning households in a random area/street. Express that as a percentage. Estimate the number of leisure boat owners in UK, apply the same percentage to that figure and we have the number of boat owners with dogs who, of course, regularly sail abroad.

No point in hiding lights under bushells.
 
I would like to take my dogs to France and to bring them back would be willing to 'divert' to a 'Reception Port' - there, even came up with a name for it. Could be Dover, Weymouth, Cowes, Falmouth. My pontoon neighbours have all said they would love to take their dogs on holiday to Europe and back on their boat.

If you are serious about seeking an amendment to the regulations, then I would suggest we present workable options, backed by the bigger marina operators and get some dog & yacht friendly MPs involved.

I would be willing to do a Chichester Marina survey & subject to demand, then if it is commercially viable I am sure Premier would be interested.

In the meantime, getting the dogs onto the ferries as 'paw passengers' would be a start. Brittany Ferries do have a couple of dog friendly cabins on the Santander route, but to be honest, having seen the kennels on the St Malo boats, I leave my dogs in the car. The dogs seem very distressed in the kennels......

Di
 
chinita said:
Probably just as well to make up the figures - who is going to check?

Look at the dog owning households in a random area/street. Express that as a percentage. Estimate the number of leisure boat owners in UK, apply the same percentage to that figure and we have the number of boat owners with dogs who, of course, regularly sail abroad.

No point in hiding lights under bushells.
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Some stats dating back to 2005 - from the BBC:

Mintel's findings were based on the British Market Research Bureau's study of 25,000 people.
Dog ownership has fallen to just 19.8% of households.

However, it seems that cats have fared well in the popularity stakes, with ownership - at 22% - virtually the same now as it was in 1985.
 
geem said:
We are off on an Atlantic circuit with two dogs. Coming back via our yacht with dogs looks like a major headache. Our current thoughts are we will need to fly them back from the Caribbean at huge cost. We will then be faced with the prospect of finding somebody to look after them whilst we sail the boat across the Atlantic.
If anybody can think of another way around this, we would be interested to hear.
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If you come to a French port flying an EU flag, nobody will ask you about dogs. Then proceed as I have described in #72. If you don't have friends at the island caring for your dog while you are crossing the channel, call a professional dog carer. I used "Holiday 4 Dogs" and enjoyed a wonderful service. "Doggy Chums" was another company I had as a fail back.

PS: EuroShuttle gives you a fast ride and is not more expensive than a ferry if you book via EuroShuttle's web-Interface and return is not later than the day following the outbound trip.
 
TPW said:
If you come to a French port flying an EU flag, nobody will ask you about dogs. Then proceed as I have described in #72. If you don't have friends at the island caring for your dog while you are crossing the channel, call a professional dog carer. I used "Holiday 4 Dogs" and enjoyed a wonderful service. "Doggy Chums" was another company I had as a fail back.

PS: EuroShuttle gives you a fast ride and is not more expensive than a ferry if you book via EuroShuttle's web-Interface and return is not later than the day following the outbound trip.
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We will only be visiting countries that the Pet Passport allows us to visit. If we sailed back to Europe, our first port of call would be Azores which is Portuguese. We would then enter France from Portugal. If French Authorities will allow this then we could bring the dogs back via ferry. We would then have to sail to England, pick up the dogs, then sail to North Wales.
 
geem said:
We will only be visiting countries that the Pet Passport allows us to visit. If we sailed back to Europe, our first port of call would be Azores which is Portuguese. We would then enter France from Portugal. If French Authorities will allow this then we could bring the dogs back via ferry. We would then have to sail to England, pick up the dogs, then sail to North Wales.
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Formally, you have to check the requirements for dog import into the EU if coming from a non-EU country. The rules depend on the country where you come from. Once cleared into Portugal, you may go everywhere with your dogs within the union. So neither the Spanish nor the French authorities will have reason to complain.

Informally, I don't believe that your dogs will be inspected at the Azores. But who knows? It is not unusual that yachts heading for the Azores departed from a non-EU country. So maybe the Portuguese process the same stiff dog control like the channel islands.
 
chinita said:
Probably just as well to make up the figures - who is going to check?

Look at the dog owning households in a random area/street. Express that as a percentage. Estimate the number of leisure boat owners in UK, apply the same percentage to that figure and we have the number of boat owners with dogs who, of course, regularly sail abroad.

No point in hiding lights under bushells.
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According to a 2013 report published by Arkenford on behalf of the industry (sponsored by the BMF, RYA, RNLI etc. and available here: http://www.britishmarine.co.uk/pdf/WatersportsReview2013ExecutiveSummary.pdf) around 1.7% of the UK adult population participated in yacht or motor boat cruising, i.e. around 845,000 people.

According to the Pet Food Manufacturers Association (a source used by the RSPCA) around 25% of UK households own a dog and 19% own a cat; that's around 17 million cats and dogs. No reason to suspect boat owners are not representative of the population.

If we just took the dog population, and said that roughly 25% of the boating population had a dog and only about 10% (a number plucked out of the air) of these took them on the boat, that's some 20,000 people take their dog on a boat. The same report notes that the majority of this activity takes place on the south coast. So, plucking another figure, lets say 10% of dog/boat owners would like to take their dog across the channel. That's some 2,000 people not taking their dog abroad, being massively inconvenienced or tempted to smuggle their dogs back.

I'm no statistician, but however you finesse the stats, these are not penny numbers and, in my view, worth Defra taking notice.

In answer to WestWittering, yes I am serious about seeking an amendment to the Regulations. My plan (such as it is) is, once I have an answer from the FOI request, to write to the SofS, hopefully with signatures from forumites. This will test the water. Depending on the reply, the next stage is to see if the RYA and/or CA or BMF will take up the charge. Perhaps yacht clubs could also be persuaded to make some noise. Getting an MP involved might be worth it, but it wouldn't be my first resort. A letter campaign can also exert pressure.

That said, I don't have a monopoly on this issue. Feel free to make your own representations!

Simon
 
SimonD said:
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If we just took the dog population, and said that roughly 25% of the boating population had a dog and only about 10% (a number plucked out of the air) of these took them on the boat, that's some 20,000 people take their dog on a boat. The same report notes that the majority of this activity takes place on the south coast. So, plucking another figure, lets say 10% of dog/boat owners would like to take their dog across the channel. That's some 2,000 people not taking their dog abroad, being massively inconvenienced or tempted to smuggle their dogs back.
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Simon
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For dogs, at least, I think a lot more than 10% of owners take their pet on the boat. Unlike cats, dogs are not particularly self-sufficient anmals that can be left alone for long periods - I would have thought that most dog-owning sailors who don't have an adult relative (son/daughter) living at home would take their pet with them to the boat if they were going for more than a couple of hours.
 
My dog is quite at home onboard, for lengthy periods of time too. SWMBO has a cat who hates it so gets catery if we go away for any length of time. I suppose one could go to France, [? anchor off and not let dog ashore, maybe] and/or return via Ireland with said pooch without hassle.
 
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