Dogs

Don't you think it time we got inline with other EU country , we sailed al over Europe without a problem any where except Malta and even there when the dog and cat was checked the guy said it was a wasted of his time , but at less there they wil send someone out to your boat to check the dog in .
The bottom line is if we going the have checks , make it easier. Or people will just smuggle the animal in .
 
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Sybarite said:
The principal reason is the risk of Rabies. France has officially been clear of rabies since 2001. There have however been a few isolated cases of infected importedo animals. A kitten wes found to have had it last November and a tight perimeter was established with the result that no other infections happened. The alert will be officially raised on April 28.
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There are regular outbreaks of rabies in France:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24773304

I don't agree rabies is the main risk for returning pets. Rabies vaccine is administered, and it's effectiveness assessed, before the dog leaves the UK. Tick treatment was dropped as a requirement last year and the sole purpose of the Pet Passport Scheme is now to inhibit the spread of non-indigenous tapeworm. What is questionable is whether the 80-100 Euro cost per trip can be at all justified in relation to the benefits of the scheme.
 
HiAndDri said:
There are regular outbreaks of rabies in France:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24773304

I don't agree rabies is the main risk for returning pets. Rabies vaccine is administered, and it's effectiveness assessed, before the dog leaves the UK. Tick treatment was dropped as a requirement last year and the sole purpose of the Pet Passport Scheme is now to inhibit the spread of non-indigenous tapeworm. What is questionable is whether the 80-100 Euro cost per trip can be at all justified in relation to the benefits of the scheme.
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That's right, and I've just discovered another nonsense. Under the current rules, if the dog was treated more than 5 days before arriving in the UK, you are allowed to have the dog treated and then wait 24 hours before landing. So, you could meet the essential requirements of the scheme by simply having a pet passport, calling up a vet to meet you on the boat on arrival and do the necessary then wait 24 hours before landing. No increase in risk, but technically, an offence has been committed.

There's another nonsense for those wanting to visit Ireland. Your dog doesn't need any treatment, but you still need to use an approved carrier, except there isn't one from Ireland to the UK. I'll cite this as another disincentive to comply with the rules.

Simon
 
Definitely, Simon - it's a win-win situation - easier for pet owners, enhanced biosecurity.
 
SimonD said:
...There's another nonsense for those wanting to visit Ireland. Your dog doesn't need any treatment, but you still need to use an approved carrier, except there isn't one from Ireland to the UK. I'll cite this as another disincentive to comply with the rules.

Simon
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Are you sure about that? There has never been any restrictions on the movement of animals between the UK and Ireland.
 
Stork_III said:
Pet Passport is needed, from 2012I think, but tapeworm treatment before entry not required.

http://www.fossedata.co.uk/FosseNews/?p=473
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That's interesting - the legislation was always there but never enforced. Presumably though there must be approved carriers as animals still move to and fro. I'd like to see how it is policed in the border counties between Ireland and the north.

Edit: looks like it isn't a problem on Irish Ferries: http://www.irishferries.com/uk-en/faq/pets-irelandbritain-routes/

Although the RYA give conflicting advice: "Free movement does however currently exist for animals travelling between the UK and the Republic of Ireland, UK and the Isle of Man, and UK and the Channel Islands. No documentation is currently required for these movements although you may wish to travel with your pet’s passport if available." From here: http://www.rya.org.uk/infoadvice/boatingabroad/Pages/customsformalities.aspx
 
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As far as I can see, as an EU member state, Ireland is treated no differently to any other Member State, except that tapeworm treatment is not required (in either direction). The RYA seems to be wrong.

The Irish Ferries website implies that they can carry pets. However, they are not on Defra's list. I'll check with them before raising this in the letter.

Simon
 
From the iPetitions link here http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/...utm_source=system&utm_campaign=Send+to+Friend and already posted it says :

I specifically talked to the Marina Manager in Dover who again said ... that Dutch boats do arrive in Dover with dogs on board. The Dutch generally understand that the pet passport is sufficient as it is throughout Europe. The marina does contact DEFRA who generally arrive at the marina within minutes. DEFRA check the paperwork and declare it all to be 'in order', but they warn the crew that if they allow the dog onto the pontoon it will be placed in quarantine and they will be fined.
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Can anyone tell me whether the converse applies and dogs that have not been allowed ashore in, say, France during the trip are not considered to have visited that country and are therefore allowed to land on return without formality ?

Boo2
 
Boo2 said:
From the iPetitions link here http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/...utm_source=system&utm_campaign=Send+to+Friend and already posted it says :



Can anyone tell me whether the converse applies and dogs that have not been allowed ashore in, say, France during the trip are not considered to have visited that country and are therefore allowed to land on return without formality ?

Boo2
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I think that is true in theory, at least. The trouble is that it is impossible to prove - yet another point against the stupidity of the current rules. You can certainly set sail from Southampton, cross to within a mile or two of the French coast and return to this country with no restrictions on your pet - how can they possibly know if the dog or cat actually set foot in France?
 
maby said:
I think that is true in theory, at least. The trouble is that it is impossible to prove - yet another point against the stupidity of the current rules. You can certainly set sail from Southampton, cross to within a mile or two of the French coast and return to this country with no restrictions on your pet - how can they possibly know if the dog or cat actually set foot in France?
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I agree, that must be true. I can't find a reference to landing in the EU regulation, but The Non-Commercial Movement of Pet Animals Order 2011 which implements the EU reg specifies "landing" as the point of importation. I can only assume the same definition must apply to other Member States.

So, Maby is spot on, and a point worth making to Defra - even if someone is apprehended landing a dog, it is hard to see how it can be proved that the animal was landed in France or wherever.

I think we are starting to build a compelling case for the current arrangements actually increasing the threat to bio security because they are impractical and virtually unenforceable. The solution is not at all radical; it is simply to treat animals returning by boat in the same way as if they arrived by air, i.e. quarantined until checked.

Simon
 
Vara said:
My observations in Dover would lead me to suspect the visiting European boats with dogs totally ignore the import regulations.
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How did you know? What kind of observations? Have you talked to the people? Have you had evidence that these boats came directly from the continent?

My experience is that nobody cares if you enter an UK port with a tail wagging dog on the yacht flying a non-UK flag - no control, no questions, no problems.

Malta has the same requirements for pet import as the UK, except the ban of private boat import. Instead, you have to fill in a form giving data of the dog and the owner plus arrival date and place. Then send this via email and call the Malta customs after arrvial. It would be much easier if the UK adopted the procedure.

But it would be of great help already, if ferry companies would allow foot passengers to travel with a dog or cat. A small animal at least, which can be carried in a closed bag. I think that trying to get ferry companies to relax their rules in that way would be easier than trying to relax the UK pet travel schema.

On my travel to England last year, I had to organize a dog carer at the island, hired a car in Calais, crossed the channel via Euro shuttle, dumped the dog in Canterbury, went back to Calais, sailed to Dover, boarded the train to Canterbury, picked up the dog and returned to my boat with the dog. An expensive and time consuming procedure.

My original plan was to sail up the Irish channel and leave the yacht somewhere for the winter time when the weather becomes bad. However, this turned out to be impossible as - by the ferry rules - you need a car for leaving Brittain if travelling with a dog. Same on the Channel Islands (where - different to the UK - stiff dog controls apply). So I changed my plans and (sadly) replaced Brittain with Brittany for the winter custody.
 
SimonD said:
... it is simply to treat animals returning by boat in the same way as if they arrived by air, i.e. quarantined until checked.
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As far as I know, no airline accepts transportation of dogs into the UK. I tried the other direction (which from the rules is the easier way) and found no airline willing to fly me and my dog back to Germany. Moreover: You are not allowed to bring a dog with a private plane. And if you find an airline which transports your dog into the UK, the dog is checked upon boarding, i.e. not after arrival, and airlines do not like to be involved in this pet checking business. The idea of the UK pet travel schema is to prevent that animals not satisfying the vet-requirements put their feet on the island.
 
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TPW said:
As far as I know, no airline accepts transportation of dogs into the UK. I tried the other direction (which from the rules is the easier way) and found no airline willing to fly me and my dog back to Germany. Moreover: You are not allowed to bring a dog with a private plane. And if you find an airline which transports your dog into the UK, the dog is checked upon boarding, i.e. not after arrival, and airlines do not like to be involved in this pet checking business. The idea of the UK pet travel schema is to prevent that animals not satisfying the vet-requirements put their feet on the island.
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Stena Line Harwich/Hook of Holland allow foot passengers with dog. £15 for dog in kennel for duration.
 
TPW said:
As far as I know, no airline accepts transportation of dogs into the UK. I tried the other direction (which from the rules is the easier way) and found no airline willing to fly me and my dog back to Germany. Moreover: You are not allowed to bring a dog with a private plane. And if you find an airline which transports your dog into the UK, the dog is checked upon boarding, i.e. not after arrival, and airlines do not like to be involved in this pet checking business. The idea of the UK pet travel schema is to prevent that animals not satisfying the vet-requirements put their feet on the island.
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Interesting. However, the point is that the current rules allow for pets to be brought in by air and for them to be checked on arrival. That's what I'm suggesting could happen with boats. The arrangement could be to not allow dogs to be landed until checked. Effectively, the boat would act as the airport's "animal reception centre".

Simon
 
Stork_III said:
Stena Line Harwich/Hook of Holland allow foot passengers with dog. £15 for dog in kennel for duration.
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Not an airline :-(

Regarding ferries: Yes, there a some allowing foot passengers with a dog in a kennel. I've been told that there is such a ferry from Belgium or the Netherlands to Edinburgh as well (Note: The dog must be in the time frame of the tapeworm treatment when boarding the ferry, not upon arrival). Same with CondorFerries between the UK and St. Peter Port/Guernsey. The same company operates a connection between St. Peter Port and St. Malo, but strangely allows only dogs in a car even when heading for St. Malo.

However, this helps not that much. The problem are the channel ferries. If dogs were allowed for foot passengers, one could simply send one crew member plus dog in the morning from Calais to Dover with the ferry, cross the channel with the yacht and pick up the couple upon arrival in Dover.
 
I've been watching this thread with a keen interest.

SimonD it might be helpful before you spend a huge amount of time and trouble trying to get DEFRA to change the law to find out just how many people wish to take their dog/cat/ferret abroad on their boat for a holiday? Also which part of the UK they wish to return to. I doubt very much that the numbers you will be talking about would make it cost effective. At the present time the import controls are carried out by the ferry companies/airlines.

Trouble is human nature being as it is would mean no matter what changes in the law there will always be someone wanting something different. Not long ago UK had full quarantine so there was no question of taking your pet on holiday abroad. The law changed and has been amended. By far the vast majority of holidaymakers taking their pets travel by car. As I said it would be interesting to find out just how many yachtsmen you are talking about.
 
Liz_I said:
I've been watching this thread with a keen interest.

SimonD it might be helpful before you spend a huge amount of time and trouble trying to get DEFRA to change the law to find out just how many people wish to take their dog/cat/ferret abroad on their boat for a holiday? Also which part of the UK they wish to return to. I doubt very much that the numbers you will be talking about would make it cost effective. At the present time the import controls are carried out by the ferry companies/airlines.
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It might be useful to know how many people would want to take their dog abroad, but how would we find out? Does anyone even know how many boat owners sail with a dog in UK waters? The best we can say is that it's likely to be a significant number, i.e. enough to pose a risk to bio security. I take your point about costs effectiveness, but, I argue that the current arrangements are not effective and any additional cost of making them effective is worthwhile. That said, I can't see that the proposed change will cost more public money.

Incidentally, I think this is a valuable debate; it's helping to inform the case.

Simon
 
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