NUTMEG
Well-Known Member
My point precisely.
Dogs
- Thread starter ip485
- Start date
My point precisely.
l'escargot
Well-Known Member
Looks like rabies is more likely to be bought into the UK by a human traveling from outside of the EU than it is by a dog travelling from inside the EU...
SimonD
Well-Known Member
I agree with those who think this is a bureaucratic nonsense that almost certainly serves no useful purpose. However, I suspect that, if challenged, Defra would argue that it is applying the 'precautionary principle'. Even if there is no evidence that it does any good, the consequences of the introduction of rabies are so great that this action is justified. Dog owning boaters simply wouldn't have enough clout to get them to change their minds.
So, given the ridiculous inconvenience and cost of complying with this useless legislation, and the small risk of being found out, I wonder how many of us would contemplate ignoring the rules. Being responsible people who, by the nature of our pastime, tend to be risk averse, we would of course comply with the innoculation requirements. We might simply choose to sidestep the recognised carrier bit.....
So, given the ridiculous inconvenience and cost of complying with this useless legislation, and the small risk of being found out, I wonder how many of us would contemplate ignoring the rules. Being responsible people who, by the nature of our pastime, tend to be risk averse, we would of course comply with the innoculation requirements. We might simply choose to sidestep the recognised carrier bit.....
Boo2
Well-Known Member
But if found out then the pet in question might face being destroyed or else up to 6 months separation in a quarantine facility. Not worth risking in my view.
Boo2
maby
Well-Known Member
As a pet owner, I'm in favour of controls that protect both human and animal health. But equally, there's no point in unenforceable laws - better to adapt them to laws that people wil respect. The current rules are extremely difficult to enforce - we are not breaking the law by taking our cat on the boat with us and the French authorities have very little interest in enforcing British rules about pets landing. If we pop over to France for a few days with the cat, return to a marina where we are not known and then go back to our home base, the chances of us getting caught are very small. Does it not make more sense for the UK government to allow marinas to conduct checks on arriving pets - making a charge if they wish? I would be very happy to pay a reasonable handling charge if MDL were to join such a scheme.
SimonD
Well-Known Member
Absolutely agree. The offence is "landing" the animal. To get caught, there would have to be an enforcement officer virtually standing on the pontoon (or beach) watching you get off the boat with dog. The chances of this must be about zero. Wouldn't it make more sense to have a system of self declaration? Returning yachtsmen would then have no reason (or reasonable excuse) for not complying with the innoculation requirements.
Perhaps I'll send a Freedom of information request to Defra asking how many yachtsmen have been apprehended under the provisions of the Rabies Order since the pet passport scheme was introduced. Once I have the answer (which expect to be zero) then I could write to the Secretary of state to suggest that a self declaration scheme would be in the public interest....
Perhaps I'll send a Freedom of information request to Defra asking how many yachtsmen have been apprehended under the provisions of the Rabies Order since the pet passport scheme was introduced. Once I have the answer (which expect to be zero) then I could write to the Secretary of state to suggest that a self declaration scheme would be in the public interest....
Kelpie
Well-Known Member
SimonD
Well-Known Member
OK, FOI request sent to Defra. I'll update when I receive a reply (which should be within 20 working days)
jimi
Well-Known Member
I would certainly support any such petition
Koeketiene
Well-Known Member
:encouragement:
jimi
Well-Known Member
Here's the reply to an email I sent about a month ago.
Dear Mr XXXXXXX
Thank you for your e-mail regarding travelling with your dog on a sailing boat within Europe.
Transporting your pet out of Great Britain on your private boat may be permitted subject to the importation requirements for your destination countries. However, please be aware that you are not permitted to bring a pet into the UK on a private boat or plane from outside the UK. Only transport companies that have been approved by DEFRA may be used to bring dogs, cats and ferrets into Great Britain under PETS. These animals must also travel on an authorised route.
For the latest information on approved transport companies and routes, please visit the PETS website at https://www.gov.uk/pet-travel-information-for-pet-owners#routes-and-transport-companies or ring the PETS Helpline on 0870 241 1710 (open Monday to Friday – 08.30 to 17:00 UK time). Please note that route lists shown on the PETS website are regularly updated and you should check before you book that you have the latest list.
For further information on how to prepare your pet for export to the UK under the Pet Travel Scheme (PETS), including listed countries, documentary requirements and approved routes and carriers, please see the link below:
https://www.gov.uk/pet-travel-information-for-pet-owners
Kind regards
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Pet Travel Team
Animal Health and Veterinary Laboratories Agency (AHVLA)
Centre for International Trade-Carlisle
Hadrian House
Wavell Drive
Carlisle
CA1 2TB
T: 01228 403600 Option 3
F: 01228 591900
E: pettravel@ahvla.gsi.gov.uk
Dear Mr XXXXXXX
Thank you for your e-mail regarding travelling with your dog on a sailing boat within Europe.
Transporting your pet out of Great Britain on your private boat may be permitted subject to the importation requirements for your destination countries. However, please be aware that you are not permitted to bring a pet into the UK on a private boat or plane from outside the UK. Only transport companies that have been approved by DEFRA may be used to bring dogs, cats and ferrets into Great Britain under PETS. These animals must also travel on an authorised route.
For the latest information on approved transport companies and routes, please visit the PETS website at https://www.gov.uk/pet-travel-information-for-pet-owners#routes-and-transport-companies or ring the PETS Helpline on 0870 241 1710 (open Monday to Friday – 08.30 to 17:00 UK time). Please note that route lists shown on the PETS website are regularly updated and you should check before you book that you have the latest list.
For further information on how to prepare your pet for export to the UK under the Pet Travel Scheme (PETS), including listed countries, documentary requirements and approved routes and carriers, please see the link below:
https://www.gov.uk/pet-travel-information-for-pet-owners
Kind regards
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Pet Travel Team
Animal Health and Veterinary Laboratories Agency (AHVLA)
Centre for International Trade-Carlisle
Hadrian House
Wavell Drive
Carlisle
CA1 2TB
T: 01228 403600 Option 3
F: 01228 591900
E: pettravel@ahvla.gsi.gov.uk
chinita
Well-Known Member
Perhaps, when you do write to the Secretary of State you could ask this readership to PM you with their name and address to add to your signature?
A hundred signatories may add just a little more weight to the argument.
SimonD
Well-Known Member
Good idea. I'll certainly do that.
Enya
Well-Known Member
I tackled the RYA on this subject a few months ago but they refused to take it up as an issue. I have the letter on line from Mr Carruthers. I since stopped my gold membership of that organisation. I would support a change in the rules to allow free passage back into the UK on my boat with my dogs.
Someone has tried a petition without much success. I think I also have that. I wonder if one of the magazines might help? ST perhaps. They once took up the anchoring cause very fully.
Someone has tried a petition without much success. I think I also have that. I wonder if one of the magazines might help? ST perhaps. They once took up the anchoring cause very fully.
Enya
Well-Known Member
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/...utm_source=system&utm_campaign=Send+to+Friend
This is the petition I referred to in my earlier post. It seems to be making some progress since last year.
This is the petition I referred to in my earlier post. It seems to be making some progress since last year.
chinita
Well-Known Member
Thanks for that. I have signed the petition which seems to make absolute sense, but with only 116 so far..........
I still believe a physical letter to the S of S with as many names as can be mustered here will help.
The response is likely to be from a functionary and a fob off. In that case the letter should be sent and re-sent until a satisfactory answer is given by the organ grinder.
Perhaps also, those who agree to sign the letter may wish to state if they are RYA Members and if they would be prepared to be signatories on a letter to the RYA.
What about the CA too?
I still believe a physical letter to the S of S with as many names as can be mustered here will help.
The response is likely to be from a functionary and a fob off. In that case the letter should be sent and re-sent until a satisfactory answer is given by the organ grinder.
Perhaps also, those who agree to sign the letter may wish to state if they are RYA Members and if they would be prepared to be signatories on a letter to the RYA.
What about the CA too?
dslittle
Well-Known Member
We put into Eastbourne with our dog on board. We were approached by a couple of UKBA who came on board and had a bit of a chat. As they were leaving I asked if they had come on board because of the dog. They said no (and had not asked any questions about him). We could just as easily have come across from Dieppe as from the South Coast. Although our dog would be legal to take to France and return we don't take him due to the inconvenience of returning - but we could...
Sybarite
Well-Known Member
The principal reason is the risk of Rabies. France has officially been clear of rabies since 2001. There have however been a few isolated cases of infected importedo animals. A kitten wes found to have had it last November and a tight perimeter was established with the result that no other infections happened. The alert will be officially raised on April 28.
maby
Well-Known Member
And I don't think that anyone here will disagree with that and the imposition of rules to control said risk. The problem is the imposition of unenforceable rules that only serve to inconvenience the law abiding and don't stop irresponsible people bringing infected animals into the country. Let's support a scheme which allows marinas to register as approved points of entry for domestic pets provided they conduct the appropriate checks on documentation. They can charge for the service - it will require them to make some outlay - I assume they will need a chip reader to check the animal in question and confirm that it is the one listed in the documentation, and they probably need to give their staff a bit of training. I would happily pay MDL a fee of £50 to check my cat in when we return to the country - the current cost of doing it legally is a lot higher in both time and money, requiring me to pay for a trip across and back on a ferry or through the tunnel.
longjohnsilver
Well-Known Member
Couldn't agree more. The current system is virtually unworkable for anyone taking their pet abroad on their own boat. These rules have effectively stopped us visiting France in the last 5 years.
We did spend several months in France on board with our dogs in 2009 and arranged for Debbie's SIL to visit in her car when in L'aberWrach so she could take the dogs back on the ferry with her.
She left for Roscoff to catch the ferry and we set off for Guernsey, about 2 hours out we had a series of troubling phone calls from her saying that the authorities were refusing to allow on of the dogs to board the ferry. Seems that when we got the pet passport the vet who completed the passport missed including the date he was chipped. The fact that they checked he was chipped and the chip number corresponded with the passport, and everything else was in order was irrelevant.
She had the choice of missing the ferry or leaving the dog behind unattended! No way could we get there in time to pick him up. After about an hour of ever increasingly frustrating phone calls the vet eventually said she'd turn her back, and if the date was there when she turned round, he could board! Ridiculous. All over a completely irrelevant date. Needless to say we were all very relieved to have it resolved. But that has now effectively stopped us going to France with the dogs, even though we have had the passports renewed in the vain hope that the rules might be relaxed to allow us to return on our own boat. All checks and inoculations would be done just the same. Even being permitted to return as a foot passenger with the dogs would be an improvement, but the requirement for them to be in a car is just crazy.