Does RCD Category influence you when buying a boat

[macd]

Where can you find out what category your boat is in, if it was built long before RCD was dreamt up and is one of a recognised class?

Unless the class/type continued into the RCD era, you can't: it won't have a category. But nor would it need one.

 

[Poignard]

Unless the class/type continued into the RCD era, you can't: it won't have a category. But nor would it need one.

Thanks. I was just curious to know whether a boat of proven seaworthiness (a Twister) was considered so to be by the beaurocrats.

The reason I asked was because someone mentioned the Folkboat as only being category C and I don't think anyone would claim that it wasn't fit for ocean voyaging (even though it might lack a few creature comforts).

 

[TimBennet]

Thanks. I was just curious to know whether a boat of proven seaworthiness (a Twister) was considered so to be by the beaurocrats.

The reason I asked was because someone mentioned the Folkboat as only being category C and I don't think anyone would claim that it wasn't fit for ocean voyaging (even though it might lack a few creature comforts).

The 'problem' with the RCD Cat A (Ocean) designation, is it requires a STIX value of 32. Within this calculation there is, what some people consider, to be an 'unreasonable' minimum boat size factor. In reality this meant that it is extremely difficult for boats much under 32 feet LOA to achieve a high enough STIX value to be deemed 'Ocean' capable. Therefore boats like the Twister would probably fall short. However the Vancouver 28 does manage it on account of its very high displacement.

At the time the RCD was introduced, it's biggest criticism (in the UK) was it was too demanding and excluded boats like the Folkboat, Twister, Cutlas 27 from not only getting CAT A, but also as a result, from trans Ocean events like the OSTAR. I think it's really funny that now in this discussion, people are saying that CAT A is not demanding enough as it doesn't weed out Bavarias from the short list of boats people might consider to go sailing in the Southern Ocean.

Also the idea that the RCD pandered to the requirements of the big European manufacturers is really amusing. The minimum size issue hinged on the STIX requirement which was pretty much a British development and rose out of the work the RYA/Wolfson Unit had done on stability screening for racing yachts in all the years post Fastnet 79. It is no coincidence that the minimum STIX requirement for CAT A of 32 is exactly that of the Contessa 32, as this was taken to be the benchmark for small, ocean capable, crewed yachts.

If Beneteau had any influence on the requirements, it certainly would have been lower as their short handed ocean race boat (The Figaro One), could only get CAT B and had to be replaced at great expense by a completely new design, the Figaro 2.

 

[JumbleDuck]

It is no coincidence that the minimum STIX requirement for CAT A of 32 is exactly that of the Contessa 32, as this was taken to be the benchmark for small, ocean capable, crewed yachts.

Actually it shows that the Contessa 32 was taken to be a marginally acceptable small, ocean capable, crewed yacht. Had it been the benchmark its STIX rating would have been much higher than the minimum.

 

[haydude]

On another thread the claim has been made that purchasers might be turned off a boat by it's RCD category. Specifically if a boat was self certified as Cat D but was obviously an Ocean Capable thoroughbred then people might not buy it.

So if a boat had a cat D but looked up to the job, would you be bothered.

I understand that small and remediable things like the size or presence of guard wires can influence the category. Stability (as resistance to capsize) also plays a significant role as explained in the document below. Thus sailing yachts, even small, have a greater chance to be Cat A than a similar sized power boat.

Here is an excerpt from an RYA document [http://www.rya.org.uk/SiteCollectio...ents/RCD Documents/1 RCD Compliance Guide.pdf]:

Design Category
The choice of Design Category will depend mainly upon the physical size and nature of the boat and, particularly if the boat is to be used in mainland European countries, the boat’s likely usage areas. A number of EU mainland countries including France and Italy have separate domestic laws which use the RCD design category to restrict the areas of operation of recreational craft. For this reason, if, for example, the boat might be sailed from Ireland or the UK to France, then the chosen Design Category should be either A or B as to enter French territorial waters with a Design Category C or D boat may conflict with French domestic law.

When choosing a Design Category, be realistic. For example it is unlikely that many power cruisers will attain a Design Category A whereas ballasted monohull sailing boats of the same length may well be Design Category A. Most sailing dinghies, even though they frequently capsize, are likely to be Design Category C with only small rowing boats, punts and the like being Design Category D.
The main criteria limiting Design Category are those included in the Stability and Buoyancy Standard ISO 12217 although other Essential Requirements as listed below also have a direct bearing on Design Category:-
• Structure
• Openings in hull, deck and superstructure
• Flooding
• Manufacturer’s Maximum Recommended Load

 

[Boathook]

My boat does not have rcd. It was built in a time when common sense prevailed and whilst some have crossed the Atlantic I would not and the people on board are still the weak point on my boat.

 

[snowleopard]

This is a loaded and pointless poll as it only deals with a rare and theoretical possibility, and unconnected with the issues on the other thread.

Once a boat is placed on the market legally the RCD has no practical impact on the owner.

Your situation only arises when a self build boat is sold in less than 5 years from completion or the boat is imported. Former is very rare given the tiny number of home builds in recent years and the latter are uncommon and atypical,

Is this really the case?
Can you sail a cat d/c boat anywhere in say european waters. Are there any insurance implications?

Lots of boats are imported, e.g. from the USA/Caribbean. In practical terms it is near enough impossible to get anything other than a cat D CE mark. That wouldn't put me off. There is a problem if they are sold to some EU countries, France especially. I have heard of French sailors being heavily fined for taking a boat beyond the limits of its classification. UK authorities will do nothing if you choose to cross an ocean in a rowing boat.

I wouldn't say the number of self-builds is tiny but the number coming up for sale within 5 years certainly is. The 5-year RCD exemption for self-builds is there to prevent people running a boatbuilding business by pretending to be serial self-builders. Legitimate self-builders mainly do it to get the boat they really want.

 

[Tranona]

Difficult to know how many boats are being imported from US but would suggest it was more common in the past than now, given the low value of the pound and euro against the dollar. The weak market in Europe means there is not the shortage of choice of boats therewas in the past.

 

[Birdseye]

My boat does not have rcd. It was built in a time when common sense prevailed and whilst some have crossed the Atlantic I would not and the people on board are still the weak point on my boat.

I wonder if you would be happy to fly the atlantic on a plane designed purely by common sense?

 

[KellysEye]

You will find that Beneteau, Jeanneau and Bavaria are all Cat A Ocean. A surveyor told me that because they were by far the largest manufacturers they were able to hijack the RCD and got the A they wanted. Obviously all those boat have made ocean passages but the build quality is relatively low compared to boats designed for ocean sailing, strength of construction is one of the key elements of the RCD.

 

[Tranona]

You will find that Beneteau, Jeanneau and Bavaria are all Cat A Ocean. A surveyor told me that because they were by far the largest manufacturers they were able to hijack the RCD and got the A they wanted. Obviously all those boat have made ocean passages but the build quality is relatively low compared to boats designed for ocean sailing, strength of construction is one of the key elements of the RCD.

Simply not true. See post #43 above.

Why do you persist in posting tittle tattle as if it is fact.