Does MCA coding have anything to say about gas lockers?

[prv]

It's immaterial to me as I have no intention of chartering, but I'm curious.

Our new-to-us Maxi, in common I believe with a number of Scandinavian boats, has the gas bottles in the anchor locker. They're on a shelf where they're unlikely to get damaged by shifting chain, but in no sense are they separated from the rest of the locker. So in effect our gas locker contains the motor part of an electric windlass, together with its wiring and switches (foot switches in the deck, with the back side emerging directly above the gas bottles).

Most people would avoid putting any electrical equipment (except a solenoid gas valve) in a gas locker. I assume that the BSS makes this a requirement (obviously not for our seagoing boat, but it's often seen as a good guide to follow), and I would have expected the MCA coding regs to say the same. Yet an MCA surveyor has apparently passed this arrangement as ok, because the boat was used for charter until we bought her, and has the requisite silly labels and (in this case) pointless fuel taps.

I'm not personally too concerned, as we don't hear of the Swedes constantly exploding, but it does seem like an anomaly.

Pete

 

[FullCircle]

Thats because the explosion would be at the front, probably well away from Skipper and SWMBO. Any one knows that foredeck crew are expendable mutton.

Bit dodgy though? In a blow with a loose anchor locker lid, mine filled to the brim with a couple of greenies coming overe the front. Not sure I would want a submersed gas system? The corrosion would set in on the hose crimps pretty quickly.
Is the anchor locker drain at floor level of the locker? My Jeanneau one is about 20mm above. Maybe it has it's own overboard drain, separate from the water drain?

 

[prv]

Thats because the explosion would be at the front, probably well away from Skipper and SWMBO. Any one knows that foredeck crew are expendable mutton.

Given the slapping noise of ripples under the boat's bum, I might end up sleeping in the forepeak when moored alongside even though there's quite a well-appointed aft cabin.

Is the anchor locker drain at floor level of the locker? My Jeanneau one is about 20mm above. Maybe it has it's own overboard drain, separate from the water drain?

There's a water drain somewhere near the bottom of the locker, as is conventional. Don't know exactly how it's arranged, as I haven't had the chain out to look. The gas bottle shelf is right up the top, though, across the aft end of the locker and a Camping-Gaz-bottle-height below the deck. It's aft of the opening section of locker lid, which is a bit inconvenient for getting at the bottles but I suppose reduces the amount of water dripping on them. As I said, no separation between the two parts, it's just a GRP shelf with the bottles held on with bungees. This is as-built, though I have plans for securing them a bit more reliably.

Pete

 

[Deleted member 36384]

I looked into this a while ago but for different reasons; my gas bottles are stored in the lazaret with all the other junk and are subject to potential impact from fenders and lines. IIRC the only comment the MCA code makes is that the lockers should be gas tight and open onto the deck to allow any escaped gas to drift over the side (there is something about drains getting blocked when healed). Regarding sharing the space with electrical equipment capable of providing an ignition source, I don't believe it mentions this. It does state that a gas detector (fitted elsewhere) must be ignition proof for the gas being detected. Thats how I remember it.

 

[pvb]

Annex 5 of the MCA's MGN280 says...

"2. Stowage of Gas Cylinders

2.1 LPG cylinders, regulators and safety devices should be stowed on the open deck (where leakage will not accumulate) or in a compartment that is vapour-tight to the vessels interior and fitted with a vent and drain, so that gas which may leak can disperse overboard.

2.2 The vent and drain should not be less than 19 mm in diameter, run to the outside of the craft and terminate 75 mm or more above the ‘at rest’ waterline. The drain and locker ventilation should be 500 mm or more from any opening to the vessels interior.

2.3 The cylinders and associated fittings should be positively secured against movement and protected from damage in any foreseeable event.

2.4 Any electrical equipment located in cylinder lockers should be certified safe for use in the potential explosive atmosphere."

 

[prv]

Annex 5 of the MCA's MGN280 says...

Thanks.

First three are covered (more or less; I'm not sure a piece of old bungee constitutes "positively secured against movement") but the fourth seems problematic. I very much doubt that the windlass and switches are certified for use in explosive atmosphere. So the boat has been chartered for years while in contravention of this rule. I wonder how many other boats with anchor-locker gas bottles (as I say, I believe it's common in Scandinavia) also have electric windlasses and are on charter? I know I've been on at least one...

Pete

 

[pvb]

I bet there are lots of coded boats which don't fully meet the regulations. It's all down to the diligence of the inspection. My HR has the gas bottle in the anchor locker, but I doubt that the drain is 19mm diameter. My windlass motor is inside the cupboard in the forecabin though, so well away from both gas and seawater.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Annex 5 of the MCA's MGN280 says..."[/i]

I still have the link that I used http://www.dft.gov.uk/mca/blue.pdf see section Annex 3, Section 2. So there are 4 codes which the Blue code applies in this case but there is also the alternative Harmonised code, which is where your quote comes from. I guess the "Harmonised" code is the one that is applicable, although it does state that it should be read in conjunction with the blue, yellow, brown and red codes.

Quote From the Blue Code

2 Stowage of gas containers
2.1 Gas containers should be stowed on the open deck or in a gas-tight enclosure
opening on to the deck, so that any gas which may leak can disperse overboard.
2.2 Stowage should be such that containers are positively secured against
movement in any foreseeable event.
2.3 In multiple container installations, non-return valve should be placed in the
supply line near to the stop valve on each container. If a change-over device is
used, it should be provided with non-return valves to isolate any depleted
containers.
2.4 When more than one container can supply a system , the system should not be
used with a container removed.
2.4 Containers not in use or not being fitted into an installation should have the
protecting cap in place over the container valve.

 

[pvb]

I still have the link that I used http://www.dft.gov.uk/mca/blue.pdf see section Annex 3, Section 2. So there are 4 codes which the Blue code applies in this case but there is also the alternative Harmonised code, which is where your quote comes from. I guess the "Harmonised" code is the one that is applicable, although it does state that it should be read in conjunction with the blue, yellow, brown and red codes.

Yes, as I understand it the "harmonised" code, MGN280, is the one which applies, and is what the RYA suggests is applicable.

 

[srm]

There seems to be a bit of a problem with the application of the code; three examples of commercial coded vessels that I have experience of:

Big rib with a passive drum type radar reflector (Echomax) mounted horizontally on the stern gantry. Good returns likely on the boat's centre line falling off to near zero at 20 degrees plus ether side of the boats centreline.

Chartered sailing yacht that I was employed to skipper; hank on storm jib under forecabin bunk but no where to hank it on. Asked the owner how he set the storm jib - "you can't". However, same boat had to fit a third row of reef points in the main to pass the survey.

Another chartered sailing yacht that I was employed to skipper; this one had a storm jib and removable stay to hank it on to. However, large mainsail with only the standard two rows of reef points (In contrast to the previous boat). With its wide stern (two double bedrooms and 'his' and 'hers' wheels) but only a single rudder the boat became unmanagable when turning onto a broad reach in 30 to 35 knots true wind speed and about 1 metre waves. Large main fully reefed and broad transom kept turning the boat across the wind against the rudder. A third reef would have been seamanlike, lacking it we had to drop the main.

Obtaining the code seems to be a case of having the bits and pieces the check list requires, but there is no assessment of how they may or may not actually work. In my third example the boat also had to carry a fitting with two red NUC lights, but when the owner was asked how it would be deployed he had no idea.

 

[pvb]

Obtaining the code seems to be a case of having the bits and pieces the check list requires, but there is no assessment of how they may or may not actually work.

As I posted earlier, it's all down to the diligence of the inspection. Merely a box-ticking exercise for many.