ninky
Well-Known Member
you could always get crew for the voyage. plenty of us are looking for milebuilding and voyaging experience. unless, of course, you want the challenge of singlehanded.
Does it exist?
- Thread starter Neil
- Start date
you could always get crew for the voyage. plenty of us are looking for milebuilding and voyaging experience. unless, of course, you want the challenge of singlehanded.
Spuddy
Well-Known Member
Sorry, Couldn't let it pass. Yes there are trad boats with full length long keels. Inevitably heavy. Folkboats and offspring have cutaway keel and can't be called slow, taking everything into consideration. Equally unpredictable going backwards though.
Neil
Well-Known Member
One poster mentioned the line from Alubat. They refer to their boats as 'ultra-light displacement vessels' . There is some appeal from the point of view of aluminium being non-corrodable /non-osmosisable - more hard wearing than GRP?. A drop keel on a blue water boat seems odd? They claim good speed running (keel up) and in bad weather they slip (keel up) to leeward rather than chance a knock-down? Am I reading this right?
Quick, solid, seaworthy? or is this just hype?
Quick, solid, seaworthy? or is this just hype?
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Their OVNI range of yachts are highly regarded as bluewater cruisers despite being lighter displacement multichine shallow draft centreboarders. They also make ULDB boats for the more adventurous.
Once you take the "heavy displacement, long keel built like brick outhouse blinkers" off there is a whole new world of possibilities. Have you ever wondered why most of the boats mentioned with awe - with the possible exception of some Scandinavian boats with huge price tags and the odd hangover in the UK are no longer made?
Once you take the "heavy displacement, long keel built like brick outhouse blinkers" off there is a whole new world of possibilities. Have you ever wondered why most of the boats mentioned with awe - with the possible exception of some Scandinavian boats with huge price tags and the odd hangover in the UK are no longer made?
westernman
Well-Known Member
Big, heavy, lots of space, very seaworthy and fast.
Can be sailed single handed, but a real pain to get the main up or down and properly stowed single handed.
Real pain to get the main up or down and properly stowed when fully crewed.
You really do need two to put up the topsail (with that up you are faster than any AWB).
Doesn't do backwards very well either.
I sail with anything from just the two of us to eight or nine.
Can be sailed single handed, but a real pain to get the main up or down and properly stowed single handed.
Real pain to get the main up or down and properly stowed when fully crewed.
You really do need two to put up the topsail (with that up you are faster than any AWB).
Doesn't do backwards very well either.
I sail with anything from just the two of us to eight or nine.
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Neil
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't spurn a Hallberg-Rassy if one was to be given to me!
Is it the common (mis?)perception that a heavy boat will be thrown about less in heavy seas?
Light wind+light boat = good progress. Light boat+heavy seas=inside of washing machine
Light wind+heavy boat=slow progress. Heavy boat+heavy seas=more comfort?
boatmike
Well-Known Member
As you mention catamarans, I have to say that they are extremely easy to single handedly sail and if you get one over about 36 ft you will have considerably more accommodation than a monohull could give you unless you go to at least 45-50ft which would be a handful single handed. I keep saying on here "there is no such thing as a perfect boat" and there isn't. From what you describe your needs to be however, you should consider them at least. You will certainly find that the limiting factor single handing is fatigue. Thats also true short handed, which I would typically define as husband and wife. Cats result in far less crew fatigue.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
That is the perceived wisdom but lighter displacement boats are becoming the norm for ocean voyaging so presumably the folks using them are prepared to accept the alternative kind of compromise!
The argument is nothing new. Maurice Griffiths was arguing the superiority of shallow(er) light(er) displacement craft in heavy weather before the second world war. And putting the ideas into practice with many of his designs. His well known Golden Hind design, while not light displacement by todays standards with a D/L of 400 only had a ballast ratio of 36% when the norm was nearer 50%. Like many of today's boats it relied heavily on form stability. Don't think anybody would question its credentials as a seaworthy ocean voyager.
I guess at the end of the day your preference will depend on your perception of the amount of time you are likely to spend in extreme weather conditions. From what I read in the yachting press and the published accounts of ocean voyagers' experiences, very little because of better weather forecasting and greater speed to escape weather. So why have a boat designed for conditions you are unlikely ever to meet?
For myself, if ever I had the gumption to do a bit of ocean voyaging, I would be quite happy to do it in my Bavaria. This is because the alterrnative for the same money would be old, slow and claustrophobic. I am confident that although it might be less comfortable the boat would be able to stand far more abuse than me - should I be unfortunate enough to get caught out in heavy weather. There are clearly hundreds of people who think likewise as you can see from the entry to events like the ARC.
Equally I can see the attraction of owning something like an HR, but it does depress me that many go no further than the Needles!
bedouin
Well-Known Member
That is a bit of a simplification - in reality things are more complex than that.
In steady winds and calm seas then the speed is really limited by the relationship between the sail area and the wetted surface area. There isn't a definite relationship between wetted surface area and displacement, and in fact many modern wide-sterned designs will have a greater wetted surface area than a narrower beamed heavier displacement fin keeler. Long keelers do inherently have a greater wetted area than fin.
In gusty conditions and calm seas the lighter boat will have the advantage as it will be accelerated faster by a gust. However on the other side of the coin a heavier boat will carry its speed longer in a lull, and be less impacted by any chop so can be faster in the right conditions....