Does hydraulic steering get harder?

[Colvic Watson]

This is our first boat with hydraulic steering and I'm still trying to fathom it. The wheel is quite light with about 3 turns lock to lock. We've not been out in too much wind and nothing much of a sea at all. Does the steering increase in difficulty the more wind there is on the sails. Or the more weather helm there is? Or the higher the seas? Or any factor?

Thanks for your help, this is puzzling me!

 

[Seajet]

As this is effectively 'power steering' - but not the 'progessive' type which has force feedback as speed increases - I wouldn't expect too much load to your hands; compared to a tiller, I might worry about a lack of 'feel' if anything.

 

[prv]

As this is effectively 'power steering' I wouldn't expect too much load to your hands

Who said power steering? Lots of hydraulic steering setups (nearly all sailing-boat ones) are powered only by the movement of the wheel.

Given the absence of an external power source, if the rudder becomes harder to move due to sea conditions, then the wheel will require more effort too. That's inevitable.

The system may or may not have feedback, depending on how it is plumbed, but won't be anything like as direct as a tiller.

Pete

 

[Colvic Watson]

It has no feedback built in and no assisted power. If I load up the sails close winded, will I feel any increase in helm? I had heard the criticism of hydraulic systems is their lack of feel - does that mean complete lack of feel?

 

[[27631]]

lack of feel...

In a word...........yes....no more load in heavy weather..than in calm conditions with hydraulic steering..

 

[masterofnone]

loss of feel

The steering pressure will remain constant, no matter the conditions (sail/wind). There is no feedback at all on the helm, you may also find you require a rudder reference transducer (for the autopilot) and a display to discern what direction the rudder is pointing.

 

[cowpat]

The Lazy Kipper, Rudders do transmit more force back to the helm the faster the water goes past them and where a weather helm is present, It is important to know if the rudder is ballanced at all.???

 

[VO5]

This is our first boat with hydraulic steering and I'm still trying to fathom it. The wheel is quite light with about 3 turns lock to lock. We've not been out in too much wind and nothing much of a sea at all. Does the steering increase in difficulty the more wind there is on the sails. Or the more weather helm there is? Or the higher the seas? Or any factor?

Thanks for your help, this is puzzling me!

I don't know, I'm only guessing mind...

IF....your steering includes any gearing in the train of transmission between the wheel and rudder the problem might be in the engagement of the gears when the rudder is under pressure. If these gears are not properly and regularly lubricated and allowed to run dry then they eventually get mashed.
The clue to mashed or partially mashed gears is a clicking noise at certain points of turn. The solution in that case is to have new gears cut and fitted.

Insofar as rudder angle is concerned, I have arrived at a solution of my own.
By measuring the whole range of rudder angle when the wheel is turned I have been able to determine how many degrees of turn is applied per turn of wheel spoke as a guide.

I agree that quadrant and wire steering is more sensitive and I have found rod steering apparently to be less so, but it is just a matter of getting used to the boat in my experience. What you want to avoid is whiplash by whatever adjustment your system allows.

 

[PCUK]

This is getting very confusing. First there is no mechanical gearing to worry about. Steering will definitely get heavier the more load there is. Previous poster on this aspect is wrong. Whether the system has non return valves that prevent feedback or not, if there is more pressure on the rudder the wheel will be harder to turn. Manual hydraulic steering cannot magically increase the force applied at the wheel to give more pressure at the ram. Sailing boats should ideally have NO non return valves as this allows 'feel' via feedback from the rudder. Try going astern fairly fast with the rudder hard over. When you straighten up you will feel the additional weight on the wheel.

 

[Gordonmc]

This is getting very confusing. First there is no mechanical gearing to worry about. Steering will definitely get heavier the more load there is. Previous poster on this aspect is wrong. Whether the system has non return valves that prevent feedback or not, if there is more pressure on the rudder the wheel will be harder to turn. Manual hydraulic steering cannot magically increase the force applied at the wheel to give more pressure at the ram. Sailing boats should ideally have NO non return valves as this allows 'feel' via feedback from the rudder. Try going astern fairly fast with the rudder hard over. When you straighten up you will feel the additional weight on the wheel.

Much as I have experienced.
The system on my ketch had non return valves as there was an electro-hydraulic self steering system. My understanding is that the NRVs are there to stop fluid from turning the wheel instead of driving the ram when the electric pump kicks in.
The self-steering has been by-passed completely and removed along with the NRVs.
I do get feedback on the wheel, but far less than I used to get on my previous tillered boat.
No more aching arms.
Here is the ram:

The hydraulic hoses go direct to the manual wheel-driven vetus pump. This pic was taken before the ram was rebuilt, hence the white oil-matting.

 

[Heckler]

This is our first boat with hydraulic steering and I'm still trying to fathom it. The wheel is quite light with about 3 turns lock to lock. We've not been out in too much wind and nothing much of a sea at all. Does the steering increase in difficulty the more wind there is on the sails. Or the more weather helm there is? Or the higher the seas? Or any factor?

Thanks for your help, this is puzzling me!

You need to clarify what type, some hydraulic steerings just use fluid to transmit the motion, some use pumps to amplify the steering effects, some like mine, are chain and wire driven direct and use a hydraulic pump to drive a ram to actuiate the auto pilot.
Stu

 

[Bosun Higgs]

It has no feedback built in and no assisted power. If I load up the sails close winded, will I feel any increase in helm? I had heard the criticism of hydraulic systems is their lack of feel - does that mean complete lack of feel?

Most hydraulic steering system rotary pumps have anti feedback valves in them since they are primarily made for power boats. Hence the dead feel of the steering and the fact that you can put the helm over and leave the wheel and it doesnt self centre but just stays where you left it. Quite handy for tacking for example - I found I could whip the wheel over and leave it whilst attending the sheets.

The effort required to turn the wheel from one position to another will obviously depend on the load on the rudder(s).