Does anyone fail these exams any more (NB)

Re: Remedy is simple, but....

Ok, I've just looked up the facts on the QCA site, and yes you're right, they try to award grades at an absolute standard. Which does seem a little silly. Ideally they would both standardise AND make sure that the papers were of the same difficulty.

I was always lead to believe at school that grades were standardised, maybe it was just coursework that that applied to.

However, even if the grades aren't standardised, and more people get A's, I find it very hard to believe that so many people get 3 A's that the universities can't differentiate between them. I'm currently at warwick uni, and the marjority of people on my high standard course (computer science for which warwick is ranked very highly) do not have 3 A's but 2 A's and a B (which is the entrance requirement). The course isn't over subscribed, so the standard offer must be sufficent to differentiate between applicants who are suitable and those who aren't.

<hr width=100% size=1>
 
I'd like to know what the hell these kids do all summer. They leave school in July with paperwork to prove they're geniuses and arrive at university in October knowing nothing.



<hr width=100% size=1>
 
Re: Remedy is simple, but....

The government and much of the educational establishment - the 'suppliers' - think the overall standard indicated by grading is improving while many 'customers' - the CBI and the older universities ( not the ex-polytechnics and technical colleges) - say it's dropping.

... and getting a 'first' once you're at some universities also appears to be getting easier.

Political spin + market forces at work?

<hr width=100% size=1>
 
Re: Remedy is simple, but....

How can you say it "clearly hasn't got any easier". The statistics show that you are twice as likely to get an A at A-level than you were 20 years ago. So either it is easier to get an A grade, or people now are much cleverer than they were 20 years ago.

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

"Don't let anyone tell you that standards have dropped because more of you have done well. This is simply a myth," said School Standards Minister David Miliband, as results showed the 22nd consecutive increase.

<hr></blockquote>



<hr width=100% size=1>
 
Some 45 years ago when I took A levels, to be sure of a place in many universities you went on to take 'S' (scholarship level) and then indvidual entrance exams set by the college. It seems we're heading that way again.

<hr width=100% size=1>
 
Re: Remedy is simple, but....

I think a lot of the discrepancy between better results but "knowing less" is due to the focus which is placed on key skills at the expense of everything else.

Given the mandatory national curriculum, there is little or no time left for humanities, music, art, sports, religion etc giving us a generation of youngsters with a blinkered view on "life" with a capital L

Why do I care, my son flunked and has gone to the pub.......oh look it's lunchtime, I better go and console him!

<hr width=100% size=1>If you're not confused, you're not paying attention.
 
Re: Remedy is simple, but....

Clever, probably not. Better educated, maybe.

Absolutely none of this is quanitfiable, hence my objections to people saying that the A-Levels I did are easy. I can't absolutely say they're not easier, you can't say they are. Either way, if they are, you have to do better to get noticed so it doesn't make any difference.

If there was some non-anecdotal evidence then you would be well within your rights to say that the 3 high A's that I worked my a**e off for are meaningless and I'm actually stupid. But there isn't, so you can't.

<hr width=100% size=1>
 
I think there's more feedback these days. From my first day (1976) in A-Level Maths to the day of the exam I wasn't told my expected grade.

Today most people intending to sit A Levels have done AS Level. If your AS was an E Grade and your coursework is coming in between E and Fail you'd have to be really stupid to push on to A Levels in that subject. Unless you need to pass that specific A Level (at any grade) for a job or college place you be silly to sit the summer exam.

<hr width=100% size=1>
 
Re: Remedy is simple, but....

Logic does not seem to be one of your strong points does it? I said nothing to imply that you are stupid.

If you believe that A Levels represent an absolute measure of the quality of the students - which is the Government's official position - then you have to believe that the quality of the students has gone up.

Are you convinced that everyone who achieved an A grade pass at A Level this year would have achieved the same grade pre 1982?

<hr width=100% size=1>
 
Re: Remedy is simple, but....

No, I'm not. I think the methods of assesment have improved, so people who the pre-1982 system didn't suit will be able to do well in todays system if they understand the syllabus. That doesn't mean its got easier.


<hr width=100% size=1>
 
It is SIMPLY that......

faced with 1500 applicants with 3 As to fill 150 places, how can you tell which have achieved the highest scores?

Well, the only way to my mind to do this is to have 100 "grades" i.e. we tell the candidates what their percentage score was on the examination paper. This way, if a course admissions officer believes that 85% in Maths, 75% in Biology and 68% in Chemistry is the minimum requirement for his course then he has the information to select those suitable. If he doesn't get the required numbers with the appropriate scores, then he can to up from the next nearest by consultation with the appropriate academic dean or principal.

Would you know how hot it was if all we had were five grades of temperature?

Steve Cronin



<hr width=100% size=1>The above is, like any other post here, only a personal opinion
 
Re: Remedy is simple, but....

Let me just point out that I don't agree with the governments position here. There is no way they can reasonably assert that the measure is absolute. There is also no way anyone can assert that they've got easier, *that* is what I object to.

<hr width=100% size=1>
 
Re: It is SIMPLY that......

I agree with that point entirely, if I get 90% in maths I get an A. If I get 70% in maths I still get an A, which isn't very fair to mr 90%!

The grades do provide a useful obfuscation however, as the difference between a 68% and a 69% could simply be down to what you had for breakfast, and so it might not be fair to judge people on such a small scale.

How about introducing a -, +, * and ** for each grade :D

<hr width=100% size=1>
 
Re: Remedy is simple, but....

Logic would sugest that it is more likely that the quality of teaching has improved, that students recognise the importance of exam results in their far more competitive lives, maybe access through the internet etc has increased their ability to research and discover more about a subject.

I agree that using grades alone is a pretty useless way of establishing potential. Kids from private schools are far more likely to get A grades than those t state schools - does this make them more intelligent - Er, I think not. I'm all in favour of unis like Bristol trying to look bit deeper than narrow results alone.

Of course we have to remember that sailors pass a YM. They don't I believe get a grade. Maybe all YMs should be forced to decalre their grade so we can establish the top 5% and damn the rest to a life sailing craft of a minimum LOA or coastal waters :-)

<hr width=100% size=1>
 
Re: Remedy is simple, but....

As someone else who has been through the system A Levels + degree in the last 10 years can quite honestly say from my own experience of past papers and syllabuses, that yes things have got easier and less rigourous. This is not the students fault, although their defence of standards is understandable, but the simple fact is that businesses are finding even basic levels of literacy and numeracy totally lacking in many graduates. Political interference will always demand an improvement in results in an attempt to validate decisions made and millibrand (who needs keel hauling) is continuing in this vein, in keeping with the governments arbitrary 50% through uni plan.

<hr width=100% size=1>
 
Re: Remedy is simple, but....

Some would say that the government would be quite happy with a largely innumerate population, in order to push Mr G Browns Taxation plans a bit further /forums/images/icons/shocked.gif

<hr width=100% size=1>
 
Re: Remedy is simple, but....

Surely the expansion of universities is to blame? If you get a string of D's and E's then I don't think you should go to university... I'm fairly sure that the bottom level has been lowered rather than the whole system dragged down.


I would be interested to see any evidence that supports your assertions.


<hr width=100% size=1>
 
Re: Remedy is simple, but....

I don't think your simple fact is very simple at all. 20 years ago, those business who are recruiting graduates from the bottom uni's wouldn't have been recruiting graduates at all. If what you're saying is in fact true, and not just another myth that is peddled around every year by grumpy cynics, then howcome everyone I know at uni is perfectly literate and numerate?

It could be true for the mickey mouse universities and their graduates, but then if you try and recruit the bottom 30% what do you expect.

<hr width=100% size=1>
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top