Does anybody have any experience of Duogen?

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I am convinced that hydro generation of electricity is the solution to my future power needs. I love the lines of Watt and Sea, but came across Duogen [https://eclectic-energy.co.uk/product-category/duogen/] while does not look as elegant it gives me hydroelectric when underway and a wind generator while at anchor.

Does anybody have any experience of using the kit. Price wise it is about the same as Watt and Sea.
 
Sandy said:
I am convinced that hydro generation of electricity is the solution to my future power needs. I love the lines of Watt and Sea, but came across Duogen [https://eclectic-energy.co.uk/product-category/duogen/] while does not look as elegant it gives me hydroelectric when underway and a wind generator while at anchor.

Does anybody have any experience of using the kit. Price wise it is about the same as Watt and Sea.
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Friends had one and seemed pleased with it, though a couple of bits broke. However, they used it on ocean passages in addition to solar as shading could be an issue under full sail.

It makes more sense to pack in as much solar as possible for shorter cruises with stretches at anchor. Wind is expensive to install and will usually be outperformed by solar for a variety of reasons (avg. winds strength, mechanical efficiency, physics etc.). Duo-gen only makes sense after you have maxed out on solar and when long passages (days/weeks) are common.
 
Friends had a duogen we had an Auqair 100. But I'm not sure they are still making them.

In trade wind sailing using the towed generator at 6 -7 knts we had enough power to run everything and keep batteries charged, didn't need any other power source for an Atlantic crossing. At anchor converted to wind it gave 6 or 7 Amps in 15-20knts and best thing it was quiet hoisted over the boom from the back stay. Duogen like other wind gens end up being near the cockpit and some can be noisy. Sadly it looks like Ampair don't exist any more but someone is selling their submersible gen Ampair UW100.
 
We have had one for 14 years. Its done three Atlantic crossings and a lot more besides. On fast passages we make over 200amp hrs per day in water mode. 250 amp in 24hrs is the maximum we have achieved. We have 300w of solar whilst on passage and with this we have fully charged batteries whilst at sea.
In wind mode it makes between 2 and 4 amps per hour typically in the places we tend to anchor. The air blades are the same as the D400 wind turbine. We have had quite a few parts replaced over the years but ours is a mk1. They have improved the design, now on mk3, so I expect the later unit to be more robust. We had water in ours but the newer ones have a re-designed alternator case that look better.
I would have another one and would choose it over the Watt and Sea as we spend so much time at anchor the wind turbine is a good option here in the Caribbean. I think if you have a catamaran with acres of space for solar you probably dont need anything but solar but we don't have that kind of space.
 
I also have a Mark 1 Duogen dating back to 2004, probably a Mark 1 ¾ now as things have been upgraded. It does what is says on the tin and is much quieter than the Air Marine ones that go supersonic above 22 knots. I am on my second set of bearing and seals but mine has had a tough life.

The after sales service is better than excellent.
 
john_q said:
I also have a Mark 1 Duogen dating back to 2004, probably a Mark 1 ¾ now as things have been upgraded. It does what is says on the tin and is much quieter than the Air Marine ones that go supersonic above 22 knots. I am on my second set of bearing and seals but mine has had a tough life.
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Mine too! Its had plenty of abuse over the years. One thing I should have mentioned is that the service from Eclectic, the manufacturer is excellent. They have sent parts out to us in various far flung places when we have broken stuff.
After an Atlantic circuit in 04/05 they took mine back to see what was worn or broken and refurbished it for free. We had it converted from 12v to 24v when we swapped boats and had components upgraded as part of that modification. Such things as carbon drive shaft.
We have damaged the nylon gear in the air drive unit when we were hit by 40kt gusts at anchor and we recently broke a couple of blades due to operator error! Eclectic recommend letting the blades swing free above 25kts. We left ours locked in the straight ahead position. It was interesting to see it putting out some serious amps on the meter in 40kts! Well over 20amps
 
I have no practical experience of either (I'm just a potential customer) but looking at the power curves for the duogen vs watt&sea / best of breed wind turbines vs duogen would suggest that duogen's jack-of-all-trades aspects has an inevitable trade-off. Obviously you can argue that the duogen is cheaper than a watt&sea+top-of-the-line wind turbine, but once you get into "very expensive" territory is the difference as significant as the difference in power? Just I thought but I'll defer to those with the practical experience...
 
laika said:
I have no practical experience of either (I'm just a potential customer) but looking at the power curves for the duogen vs watt&sea / best of breed wind turbines vs duogen would suggest that duogen's jack-of-all-trades aspects has an inevitable trade-off. Obviously you can argue that the duogen is cheaper than a watt&sea+top-of-the-line wind turbine, but once you get into "very expensive" territory is the difference as significant as the difference in power? Just I thought but I'll defer to those with the practical experience...
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It would be nice to see a contribution on this thread from somebody who has a Watt and Sea. In their early days there were reports of them putting out a lot less than their theoretical output. If that is still the case I dont know? I know the Duogen performs as advertised since a run an amp hr meter on mine
 
Thanks for all the comments. They are very useful.

On multiple day trips they sound ideal, I am looking to do some voyages well above 60 degrees north in a few years and even in high summer there is not a great deal of power to be harvested from the sun that far north. Our power usage is pretty low, nav kit, lights and perhaps the fridge if we have enough spare amp hours generated.

I like the advantage of being able to turn it into a wind generator. Sat at anchor we use even less than on passage.

I'll contact the company and see if they have more information than on the website.
 
We don't have personal experience of the Duogen - we use an LVM Aeroaquagen4, no longer available. An issue with the Duo gen is that you must locate the device at the transom and getting clear air for the wind aspect is then compromised as you will have a bimini, boom cover etc - in the way at some time. The Duo gen might also compromise your thought on dinghy storage.

Power generation from the LVM unit when used as a water gen is so good we would never make long passages without one. So - if the current unit was to fail we would buy a WattnSea but would also option a wind gen, don't know which one - but would go for size, i.e. BIG We live and cruise in sunny Australia - but there are too many days of no sun to rely on solar - even on a cat (with a decent array). To be self sufficient with solar you need a decent battery bank, ours is 400 and with a couple of overcast days - is inadequate. On a sunny day, or 5, we have more than enough power (which encourages profligate use) - you only need to have 2 days overcast to join the real world.



Sadly there is an extension to Parkinson's Law -

the capacity to use power increases slightly more quickly than any increases in power availability

You can forsake, fridge, deep freeze, autopilot, laptops, tablets, radar, phones, desalinator - but it is the 21st Century - and wind and solar technology almost allows you (and your guests) to stay in touch (with the century).

Jonathan
 
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I haven't tried it yet but I'm interested on its effectiveness and efficiency. I would like to try it too. I hope it will not encounter power generation trouble while in the middle of the ocean.
 
As PV panels convert light in high latitude with longer sunnier days I think you might find the power output in Watt Hours will be quite good. The panels are also more efficient in cold climates so there are more PV installations in high latitudes than you would think. If you can adjust the angle of the panels that will make a big difference.
 
Neeves said:
We don't have personal experience of the Duogen - we use an LVM Aeroaquagen4, no longer available. An issue with the Duo gen is that you must locate the device at the transom and getting clear air for the wind aspect is then compromised as you will have a bimini, boom cover etc - in the way at some time. The Duo gen might also compromise your thought on dinghy storage.

Power generation from the LVM unit when used as a water gen is so good we would never make long passages without one. So - if the current unit was to fail we would buy a WattnSea but would also option a wind gen, don't know which one - but would go for size, i.e. BIG We live and cruise in sunny Australia - but there are too many days of no sun to rely on solar - even on a cat (with a decent array). To be self sufficient with solar you need a decent battery bank, ours is 400 and with a couple of overcast days - is inadequate. On a sunny day, or 5, we have more than enough power (which encourages profligate use) - you only need to have 2 days overcast to join the real world.



Sadly there is an extension to Parkinson's Law -

the capacity to use power increases slightly more quickly than any increases in power availability

You can forsake, fridge, deep freeze, autopilot, laptops, tablets, radar, phones, desalinator - but it is the 21st Century - and wind and solar technology almost allows you (and your guests) to stay in touch (with the century).

Jonathan
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The Duogen is effectively a D400 wind gen when used in wind mode. It has a little less output due to some extra gears. The D400 is well respected as one of the higher output wind turbines on the market, with a 1.1m diameter. They seem to be the most popular wind turbine in the Caribbean.
We use our Duogen on a ketch and it was previuosly fitted to our 37ft catamaran. Works well in both applications. The tower comes in three different lengths so you can usually find a mounting solution to suit
 
Neeves said:
We don't have personal experience of the Duogen - we use an LVM Aeroaquagen4, no longer available. An issue with the Duo gen is that you must locate the device at the transom and getting clear air for the wind aspect is then compromised as you will have a bimini, boom cover etc - in the way at some time. The Duo gen might also compromise your thought on dinghy storage.

Power generation from the LVM unit when used as a water gen is so good we would never make long passages without one. So - if the current unit was to fail we would buy a WattnSea but would also option a wind gen, don't know which one - but would go for size, i.e. BIG We live and cruise in sunny Australia - but there are too many days of no sun to rely on solar - even on a cat (with a decent array). To be self sufficient with solar you need a decent battery bank, ours is 400 and with a couple of overcast days - is inadequate. On a sunny day, or 5, we have more than enough power (which encourages profligate use) - you only need to have 2 days overcast to join the real world.



Sadly there is an extension to Parkinson's Law -

the capacity to use power increases slightly more quickly than any increases in power availability

You can forsake, fridge, deep freeze, autopilot, laptops, tablets, radar, phones, desalinator - but it is the 21st Century - and wind and solar technology almost allows you (and your guests) to stay in touch (with the century).

Jonathan
Click to expand...
Thanks Jonathan some very good points there.

I've been working to significantly reduce the power consumption on board, LED lights, extra insulation for the fridge that sort of thing, while at sea I'm not fussed about keeping in contact with the current century, but considering a Yellow Brick (as a "heartbeat" position signal) or satellite phone for weather.
 
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