Does a motoring cone give right of way

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scottie

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Last sunday we were racing therefor had to sail through Burntisles narrows along with several other boats against wind and tide light wind so several tacks in narrow channel
A 40ft AWB with a rarely seen cone just motored through at full speed although he
did not cause anybody to get out of way it was rather cavalier
Legally correct but totally lacking in consideration
rant over
 
So nobody had to give way to this motor sailer and yet you still feel he was in the wrong. Why?
 
Sounds like he judged it right and kept out of everyones way - why are you posting this???? By the way - he would have had to give way to you as you were under sail...
 
scottie said:
Last sunday we were racing therefor had to sail through Burntisles narrows along with several other boats against wind and tide light wind so several tacks in narrow channel
A 40ft AWB with a rarely seen cone just motored through at full speed although he
did not cause anybody to get out of way it was rather cavalier
Legally correct but totally lacking in consideration
rant over
Click to expand...

If a collision situation had arisen he would have been the give way vessel in relation to anyone sailing (unless exceptional circumstances applied) I suspect you know that. So, as others have enquired, what was the problem?
 
clarification

Sorry should say that the channel is only about 5-6 boathlengths between rocky shores a very flukey wind with slow sailing boats and there is a alternative channel on other side of the islands a bit longer
If I had been motor sailing I would not of have gone through other boats and certainly not at full speed
 
my option

gone round the outside
I dont see the point in deliberatley going into a potential problem he was restricting the other boats from being able to manouver
 
scottie said:
gone round the outside
I dont see the point in deliberatley going into a potential problem he was restricting the other boats from being able to manouver
Click to expand...

I don't know the area, but I presume, having committed to this chanel, and then seeing it was full of boats racing, he wasn't going to turn round and go the long way round. He probably saw a gap and went for it.

We encounter this problem coming in and out of Chichester Harbour - sometimes it actually easier to go through and pass them all quickley.
 
Not so sure

The 40' AWB motoring through the Burnt Island narrows is restricted by the narrow channel and so a sailing vessel becomes give way.

IRPCS Rule 9(b) "A vessel of less than 20 metres in length or a sailing vessel shall not impede the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within a narrow channel or fairway."

So the AWB would only be give way vessel to something under power >20m - something like the PS Waverley.

Discuss!
 
awol said:
The 40' AWB motoring through the Burnt Island narrows is restricted by the narrow channel and so a sailing vessel becomes give way.

IRPCS Rule 9(b) "A vessel of less than 20 metres in length or a sailing vessel shall not impede the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within a narrow channel or fairway."

So the AWB would only be give way vessel to something under power >20m - something like the PS Waverley.

Discuss!
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I know you are only ntrying to wind people up with that post ... ;)

But let's answer it as though you weren't ! :D

The AWB is under 20m himself - so equally applies to him as others. The rule in fact is geared to mean larger vessels should not be impeded by smaller that can safely navigate in fringes or out of the channel or fairway. Intention of rule is boats like us not to impede larger merchant vessels seriously constrained.

Taking one part of a rule out of it's general context is dangerous and too common on the forums. each part should be read with it's general parts as well to get the overal picture of meaning.
 
awol said:
The 40' AWB motoring through the Burnt Island narrows is restricted by the narrow channel and so a sailing vessel becomes give way.

IRPCS Rule 9(b) "A vessel of less than 20 metres in length or a sailing vessel shall not impede the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within a narrow channel or fairway."

So the AWB would only be give way vessel to something under power >20m - something like the PS Waverley.

Discuss!
Click to expand...
Where in the rules you have quoted does it say the sailing vessel becomes give way?

That's right it doesn't

End of Discussion :)
 
Quote: IRPCS Rule 9(b) "A vessel of less than 20 metres in length or a sailing vessel shall not impede the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within a narrow channel or fairway."

You have stated that the channel is restricted, therefore a 40ft boat has limited manouverability unlike (what I presume are) racing dinghies tacking down it. Therefore the 40ft should not be impeded irrespective of size under 20m because he is the vessel which can "safely navigate only within a narrow channel or fairway". That part of the rule does NOT define minimum size, it defines a vessel that can "safely navigate......ONLY" etc.

Moving on to the obvious point missed by all, you say it is a "motor sailer with a cone indicating under power going flat out"? What speed is a motor sailer under power likely to achieve? 8 knots, 9? No more than hull speed I suggest if indeed it's engine is capable of achieving even that. So it wasn't actually going fast, possibly not even as fast as your lightweight dinghies?

It seems as though you resent the right of a larger vessel to navigate a channel possibly impeding a dinghy race in which you were participating but not in fact causing any actual concern. In other words, a troll?
 
awol said:
The 40' AWB motoring through the Burnt Island narrows is restricted by the narrow channel and so a sailing vessel becomes give way.

IRPCS Rule 9(b) "A vessel of less than 20 metres in length or a sailing vessel shall not impede the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within a narrow channel or fairway."

So the AWB would only be give way vessel to something under power >20m - something like the PS Waverley.

Discuss!
Click to expand...

Here is one of the problems with the colregs. A lot of things aren't clearly defined, including what is meant by 'a vessel which can only navigate within the channel'. It could be taken to apply to a canoe in a creek but most reasonable people would take it to mean ships, certainly only vessels >20m length.

In the particular case described by the OP, rule 9b isn't relevant. The rules that should apply are the usual power/sail rule but also, and this is one that sailors tend to ignore, a stand-on vessel must hold its course and speed which means they can't tack into the path of a mobo.

It's amazing how many sailors are unaware of the many circumstances where a sailing vessel has to give way to a power vessel.
 
boat sizes

The boats racing were between 30 and 45 ft so size was not an issue
My main point was that this is only about the 2nd or 3rd time I have seen a cone used on the clyde but in this case the person driving had put it up but left his sense when he drove through a restricted chanel when he could have avoided it .
Technically right but stupid in practice
 
In my experience a sailing boat motoring through a channel causes less of an obstruction than a similar sized sailing boat tacking up the same channel against wind and tide.

So if you consider the boat was "stupid" to motor through the channel under motor and displaying the correct day shapes - what does that say about the person who set a race course that required an entire fleet to tack through the channel - "criminally insane" would be about the only term!

Sorry you can't have it both ways - if it was okay for you to tack up the channel against wind and tide then it was absolutely fine for a similar-sized boat to motor through the same channel.
 
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