Does a 'forever boat' really exist?

Storyline said:
The Westerly Riviera always seemed to me to be a good compromise but they never really sold well, maybe they did not do either role well, not sure. She was available with bilge keels and a reasonable cockpit iirc.

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too pricey & not the prettiest boat either. Those French window doors onto the cockpit never appealed to me either. I quite like the LM boats but they are long keel with bilge plates at best & I like to dry out on a beach. The Southerlies appeal, but prices are high & the keel repairs are awful pricey too.
 
Storyline said:
Have gone a bit backwards in Storyline as the control for George is near the wheel so we have to pop out into the rain momentarily to alter course whereas on Saumur I rigged up a system where I could control him from the plotter at the chart table.
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Is George a Raymarine George? If so, it's very easy to add extra control stations - they just plug into the Seatalk bus and away you go. Or you can plug in the base station for a wireless remote and use that anywhere on board - I've motored up a windless Solent before while reclining on the foredeck and using the buttons to steer :)

Searush said:
I suspect few will cope with strong contrary currents, narrow channels etc.
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I think a decent one with below-decks drive should cope fine with strong currents. Narrow channels are fine in theory (I've been on a yacht which went down the Kiel Canal largely on autopilot, with the skipper continually pressing +1 and -1 at the corners) but personally I would always hand-steer just in case.

Pete
 
This is my forever boat

Safe, steady, built like a tank, good looking.

Folksong_zpse1541798.jpg
 
prv said:
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I think a decent one with below-decks drive should cope fine with strong currents. Narrow channels are fine in theory (I've been on a yacht which went down the Kiel Canal largely on autopilot, with the skipper continually pressing +1 and -1 at the corners) but personally I would always hand-steer just in case.

Pete
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Sure, strong current OR narrow channels are easy. I have them at the same time.

You set a course & ferry glide from one hazard (port side say) to the next (on starboard) - maybe your pilot can steer by eye rather than compass or wind? Perhaps a chart plotter driven one could cope if it is very responsive & a fast learner, but that is way beyond my budget.
 
skodster said:
You could say that the Westerly Pentland (Nice boat btw!) is OK until you want to hop her on a trailer and take her to a lake to do some single handed sailing! See my point? :rolleyes:

Each to their own!
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I totally agree, which is why I have a Laser (for solo) & a GP14 for solo/ family lakesailoring. Hence, the ideal number of boats is always N +1 were N is the number you already have . . .

Speak to Dylan Winter, his PHD doctorate paper is on this topic.
 
prv said:
Is George a Raymarine George? If so, it's very easy to add extra control stations - they just plug into the Seatalk bus and away you go. Or you can plug in the base station for a wireless remote and use that anywhere on board - I've motored up a windless Solent before while reclining on the foredeck and using the buttons to steer :)

.....

Pete
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Yes, he is a Raymarine but apart from the Lifetags it is the only Raymarine stuff we have so no bus. The way we used to do it was to connect to the plotter using nmea and then put George into track mode and he would follow any changes to the route on the plotter. Not very elegant but it worked. Suppose I could get another control head but it is a long way down the wish list.
 
I had a Stella from new for 10 years & cried when she had to go
I dreamed about her for 22 years before I could buy another
Did not realise how the D...mned thing bruised me so much & how cramped & wet she was
Current 31 ft boat (11 years so far) was to be my swansong but !!
Did look at a bigger model at the boatshow but was so disappointed with the " improvements " i put my chequebook away
Still might get it out again though
never say no!!
Perhaps that is why I also have a Squib & a Phantom plus a garage full of sailboards
 
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It's raining hard here today after weeks of summer heat, so it's as good a time as any to push the wheelhouse idea again. This assumes a future based in the UK.

I spent years among mates who spent every hour fretting about the perfection of their cars. Somewhere on the road between getting their licences and spending £££s on rare wax polishes, they'd forgotten why they started driving at all. Their pursuit of an obscure ideal really limited the actual use of their cars - every trip was in the wrong kind of weather, or meant parking in a dodgy neighbourhood, or there'd be something not quite right about the engine note - it was nuts. Their cars didn't serve them, they served the cars.

So whatever sleek, elegant boats I dream about, the one I really hope to own 'forever' (alright, the one I most often dream about) has to look after herself and me with a minimum of input, rather than requiring an ongoing commitment of care. She needs to be tough even if she's clumsily proportioned, and comfortable even if she sails like a wheelie-bin.

Most of all, her use needs to be immune to miserable weather. There are plenty of fine days in spring, autumn & winter when it always looks as if it'd be nice to be out, sailing...

...but without an inside helm, I don't believe my enthusiasm would endure, less still as I grow older and more feeble. And what sense is there in such a big investment as a yacht, if it's only usable for a third of the year?
 
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dancrane said:
. And what sense is there in such a big investment as a yacht, if it's only usable for a third of the year?
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Our village ex policeman decided at 85 yrs of age to buy a brand new Volvo
His kids- looking at the inheritance -said
But dad you might be dead tomorrow
So what- the reply came- I will have had a brand new Volvo for a day

Bit like the boat really. You either have one or you do not . It's your choice

But when i am laying in bed waiting for the angel Gabriel- I can say - Well I had a go at most things!!!!
Including a Morgan !
 
Daydream believer said:
...when i am laying in bed waiting for the angel Gabriel- I can say - Well I had a go at most things!!!!
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Amen to that...but I thought this thread referred to "forever" as meaning the yacht which would best satisfy one's requirements even for however long a time as one might live...

...and however many decades or days I may have remaining, I'd rather not be limited in terms of time afloat, by lousy UK weather. Hence, a forever boat spells 'wheelhouse' to me.
 
dancrane said:
It's raining hard here today after weeks of summer heat, so it's as good a time as any to push the wheelhouse idea again. This assumes a future based in the UK.

I spent years among mates who spent every hour fretting about the perfection of their cars. Somewhere on the road between getting their licences and spending £££s on rare wax polishes, they'd forgotten why they started driving at all. Their pursuit of an obscure ideal really limited the actual use of their cars - every trip was in the wrong kind of weather, or meant parking in a dodgy neighbourhood, or there'd be something not quite right about the engine note - it was nuts. Their cars didn't serve them, they served the cars.

So whatever sleek, elegant boats I dream about, the one I really hope to own 'forever' (alright, the one I most often dream about) has to look after herself and me with a minimum of input, rather than requiring an ongoing commitment of care. She needs to be tough even if she's clumsily proportioned, and comfortable even if she sails like a wheelie-bin.

Most of all, her use needs to be immune to miserable weather. There are plenty of fine days in spring, autumn & winter when it always looks as if it'd be nice to be out, sailing...

...but without an inside helm, I don't believe my enthusiasm would endure, less still as I grow older and more feeble. And what sense is there in such a big investment as a yacht, if it's only usable for a third of the year?
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A decent sprayhood is good enough for 365 sailing - for me anyway. Opens up the market considerably, and give access to seaworthy but very much cheaper vessels.

However, the desire for a boat that requires 'minimum of input and ongoing care' whilst understandable, is not realistic. If it exists the quality has nothing to do with perceived 'ruggedness' of appearance.
 
obmij said:
A decent sprayhood is good enough for 365 sailing - for me anyway.
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Honestly? I wish I was so hardy. There were sunny days last March when the wind was so cold, I couldn't stand outside the sailing club to take photos of the racers. Regardless of the excellent attire available, I wouldn't relish helming outdoors at such times, any more than I'd have wanted to ride home on a moped instead of in the car with the heater on.

But I'm glad wheelhouse motorsailors aren't most people's ideal boat...there'd be far too few available to supply the market, if sailing wasn't mainly accepted as seasonal here.
 
Dan,

I think most of us have got used to being semi-frozen and just get on with it. I was always attracted by the idea of a wheelhouse but the boat would need to meet one or two little tests: -
- outside cockpit for the good days - not just the emergency tiller and few feet Fisher offer
- ability to properly sail
- space for at least one to sleep in wheelhouse
- price LM's are almost as ridiculously priced as Fishers and what else is there?
 
Sandgrounder said:
I think most of us have got used to being semi-frozen and just get on with it.
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I believe you're right but it seems terribly unfortunate to me. If owning a yacht necessarily meant serious discomfort or stopping in the low season, I'd never move out of dinghies.

While I'm not interested in racing, my dinghy-owning has always felt tinged by the fact that every sail necessarily ends at sunset, just because dinghies don't accommodate.

When I'm able to move up to a boat that does accommodate, I'll feel daft if foul weather tinges that ownership experience simply because the vessel's design doesn't offer any comfortable alternative to the al fresco steering position.

I reckon most people's sailing is shoehorned into a dozen weekends per year plus three weeks of annual leave, so I have to believe that most yachts' conspicuous, unashamed unsuitability for use, October-March at 50° north, is just accepted as another inevitable, inescapable limit to the fun, which increases these vessels' effective cost-per-day of use...

...but visualising the "forever" yacht, I see myself going on board whenever I'm free to, regardless of the season; not always to journey very far, but for the pleasure of being afloat in a safe and comfortable weatherproof vessel whose designer wasn't only thinking of performance styling cues or the influence of the summer charter market.

Fishers are a pretty extreme example of the wheelhouse genre. Stylish in their way, but they don't make great use of space, nor offer better than basic sailing. Far from cheap too, but p'raps it's cheaper to buy a pricier yacht, if her design encourages twice or thrice as much use, uninhibited by cold grey weather? I prefer the old Nauticat designs myself.

Lots of other yachts allow helming beside the heater. Most of the big yards have had a try; few made it pay, and the reasoning for that isn't very interesting, but with plenty of not-new motorsailers on the market at any time, a boat offering the option to stay dry and warm while steering, all-year-round in British weather, will remain top priority on my list. :)
 
At the age of 70 I came to the conclusion that a motor-sailor was the answer for my "forever" boat, despite sailing in a more clement climate than UK waters - one needs the lid to keep the savage sun off, not just the rain. Nine years later I do not regret the choice, more sailor than motor I can turn off the engine with any wind over 5 knots - providing it is greater than 45 degrees off my course.

Not a wheel-house but a dog-house - a good compromise ... but isn't that what most boats are? At 31' a perfect size for one or two and ideal for my usual single-handed cruising; falling under the 10m limit where berthing costs start to bite for a pensioner.

Here I am anchored a few weeks ago in my local lagoon area where my shallow, long-keel draught allows me to explore. Horses for courses.

Curlew Laguna di Grado 3.jpg
 
snowleopard said:
It's impossible. I built mine for tropical cruising with the family but now it's 2 of us around the UK. Everyone's needs change over the years.
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Yes, life changes. In my case work means travel 2 weeks in every 4-6, mostly at weekends means that the benefits of owning a boat are questionable. And I am not complaining about the travel, it's just a different phase of my life. I think the trick is to be happy with and get full pleasure from the forever boat when it makes sense, but not get so attached to it as to actually try to keep it forever if a different option would work better.
 
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