documentation for ireland

[Birdseye]

Cruise starts Wednesday, and SWMBO has decided she wants to try for Irealnd. Problem is, I let my SSSR lapse several years ago because we werent leaving the UK and its too late to get one for the cruise.

So can you go to Ireland without the SSSR ? Boat is a 96 build and I do have copies of bill of sale etc,

Any other issues for Ireland. Do they bother about flares and life raft being out of date?

 

[underdog]

Wearing a life jacket obligatory that's all

 

[Tranona]

In theory you need your SSR as Ireland is a separate state. I guess whether you chance it without the correct documentation depends on how likely you think you will be "caught" - that is asked to produce it by the authorities and what penalty they may apply. Serious no-no in France with a hefty on the spot fine, but the Irish may be more laid back.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

Cruise starts Wednesday, and SWMBO has decided she wants to try for Irealnd. Problem is, I let my SSSR lapse several years ago because we werent leaving the UK and its too late to get one for the cruise.

So can you go to Ireland without the SSSR ? Boat is a 96 build and I do have copies of bill of sale etc,

Any other issues for Ireland. Do they bother about flares and life raft being out of date?

Laminate a label from a bottle of Newcy Brown for your registration document & fly a pair of holey old kecks for an ensign & you'll be fine. The Irish really have more enjoyable things to do that bother about paperwork, like talking until your ears bleed. Even the creelboat fishermen will rabbit on at you for hours given the chance, unlike our surly lot.

Never had any check on anything in 3 decades of places Irish.

 

[Sgeir]

On the life jackets issue, as far as I recall, all boats regardless of length have to carry a lifejacket for each person on board, but it is compulsory for those aged 16 and under to wear them while on deck. It is also compulsory for everyone to wear them on boats below 7m LOA.

Best to check before making the crossing. I don't think Ireland is particularly worried about documentation but the usual ship's papers and a passport might be helpful, just in case.

EDIT: In the light of the next three posts below, might I suggest that that ship's papers and passports might be more essential than helpful?

 

[Graham376]

We were checked off Irish coast about 15 years ago, just once out of countless trips. Between Dunmore East and Kilmore Quay, can't remember whether it was police or navy rib. All in black, balaclavas and guns etc. they wanted all paperwork including photo ID and quick look below.

 

[Scomber]

We were checked off Irish coast about 15 years ago, just once out of countless trips. Between Dunmore East and Kilmore Quay, can't remember whether it was police or navy rib. All in black, balaclavas and guns etc. they wanted all paperwork including photo ID and quick look below.

Likewise - a few yrs ago

 

[Wandering Star]

Last year I sailed into Kinsale and we were boarded by the equivalent of the UK Border Force. They searched the boat and checked all documents - proper job. Since SSR registration is such a fundamental requirement for a boat visiting foreign shores,, and it’s not onerous pr complicated to obtain, I’d expect to be fined quite heavily if I couldn’t prove registration.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

The police checking out the others boats were looking for terrorists or smugglers not boat thieves so want to know who is on the boat and what its carrying not if everything is up to date. I think a lapsed SSR would be sufficient to prove ownership particularly if you have bill of sale. You also may strictly need international certificate of competency but no one ever asked to see it even in France. The Irish seemed laid back and when some time ago I asked where customs were they all looked blank and said "somewhere in Dublin" or words to the effect. Only time I was ever challenged was moored in Woodspring Bay in the Bristol Channel when a CG Cutter came along side and asked me what I was doing and where I was going. Rather bemused I said I was waiting out a tide then going home and they shot of at 20kts

 

[JumbleDuck]

Just for fun, remember that the Republic of Ireland still officially claims the sea around Northern Ireland, thanks to a cock-up in the drafting of the Government of Ireland Act 1921, which didn't specify what would happen if (or rather when, because it was expected to) the North left the Irish Free State and rejoined the UK. In practice this only nowadays means squabbling about Loch Foyle and Carlingford Loch.

 

[Tranona]

The police checking out the others boats were looking for terrorists or smugglers not boat thieves so want to know who is on the boat and what its carrying not if everything is up to date. I think a lapsed SSR would be sufficient to prove ownership particularly if you have bill of sale. You also may strictly need international certificate of competency but no one ever asked to see it even in France. The Irish seemed laid back and when some time ago I asked where customs were they all looked blank and said "somewhere in Dublin" or words to the effect. Only time I was ever challenged was moored in Woodspring Bay in the Bristol Channel when a CG Cutter came along side and asked me what I was doing and where I was going. Rather bemused I said I was waiting out a tide then going home and they shot of at 20kts

Just to correct any misunderstandings. An SSR is NOT proof of ownership. Its purpose is to identify the state of the ship, which is the legal requirement if outside your own territorial waters. However it seems our Irish friends are not to bothered about it. The Bill of Sale is indeed proof of ownership, but this is rarely asked for unless customs have something that suggests ownership or VAT payment is an issue. Highly unlikely in the OPs situation.

 

[macd]

Last year I sailed into Kinsale and we were boarded by the equivalent of the UK Border Force. They searched the boat and checked all documents - proper job. Since SSR registration is such a fundamental requirement for a boat visiting foreign shores,, and it’s not onerous pr complicated to obtain, I’d expect to be fined quite heavily if I couldn’t prove registration.

Fair enough, but for almost a century since the inception of the Common Travel Area, travel and residence between UK/British Islands/Ireland has been quite different from that between UK and, say, France. For instance no passports are required (although useful for proving identity). Additionally, Ireland's own leisure registration system is so ramshackle, I daresay many Irish boats couldn't produce a registration certificate.

 

[Graham376]

Fair enough, but for almost a century since the inception of the Common Travel Area, travel and residence between UK/British Islands/Ireland has been quite different from that between UK and, say, France. For instance no passports are required (although useful for proving identity). Additionally, Ireland's own leisure registration system is so ramshackle, I daresay many Irish boats couldn't produce a registration certificate.

Problem is, unlike most other EU States, we don't have photo ID cards and photo ID is required for travel to/from Ireland, leaving us with passport as the only option if pulled and inspected.

 

[macd]

we don't have photo ID cards and photo ID is required for travel to/from Ireland, leaving us with passport as the only option if pulled and inspected.

A point of view I'd expect from a typical traveller, less so from a sailor. I've found a driving licence amply sufficient with Irish authority. True, it probably wouldn't be with an airline or ferry company. Irish law regards CTA citizens as non-aliens, and thus subject only to the same requirements as any Irish-born and resident Irish citizen.

It further states that British citizens are not subject to immigration control, nor required to be in possession of a valid travel document, but may have to satisfy officials as to their nationality. Since for the past decade or so, CTA citizens have gone through the same airport/port immigration controls as everyone else, expectation of a passport has become something of a norm. It has not become the norm for people entering by other means, such as leisure sailors. (An Irish judge speculated that all this was something Joseph Heller might appreciate )

 

[Graham376]

A point of view I'd expect from a typical traveller, less so from a sailor. I've found a driving licence amply sufficient with Irish authority.

The folks who boarded us specifically wanted passports, they said necessary as we were't on regular ferry or plane when identity would already have been checked. Luckily we had passports with us in case we had to dump the boat and fly back due to weather problems.

P.S. This from Irish Citizen site - The Common Travel Area means that there are no passport controls in operation for Irish and UK citizens travelling between the 2 countries. You do not need to have a passport in order to enter the other country. However, all air and sea carriers require some form of identification and some regard a passport as the only valid identification. Immigration authorities may also require you to have valid official photo-identification which shows your nationality. As you are being asked to prove that you are an Irish or UK citizen who is entitled to avail of the Common Travel Area arrangements, it is advisable to travel with your passport.

Although a UK driving license states date and place of birth, it doesn't show nationality, which could well be different - as in my wife's case.

 

[JumbleDuck]

The folks who boarded us specifically wanted passports, they said necessary as we were't on regular ferry or plane when identity would already have been checked. Luckily we had passports with us in case we had to dump the boat and fly back due to weather problems.

P.S. This from Irish Citizen site - The Common Travel Area means that there are no passport controls in operation for Irish and UK citizens travelling between the 2 countries. You do not need to have a passport in order to enter the other country. However, all air and sea carriers require some form of identification and some regard a passport as the only valid identification....

Things may have changed in the last couple of years, but last time I flew Aer Lingus from Edinburgh to Dublin and back, no form of ID was required in either direction. Ryanair require passports, but that's just Ryanair. Stena don't require anything at all between Cairnryan and Belfast. And, of course, the land border is completely open with no checks or controls and nowhere they could be carried out. For now.

 

[macd]

Graham (re post #15): of course the approach I'd recommend, to the OP or anyone else, is the prudent one: carry every conceivable document. Much like ICC in much of Europe, whether required or not. But I can't resist the suspicion that the advice from the Irish Citizen site is at odds with the Irish constitution, hence the Catch 22 allusion from our Irish m'learned friend.

I still think birdseye will be absolutely fine, whatever documents he does or doesn't carry. The only difference will be in the nature of the adventure. I'm sure he'll have his passport with him, regardless. And may the wind always be at his back.

 

[pagoda]

Graham (re post #15): of course the approach I'd recommend, to the OP or anyone else, is the prudent one: carry every conceivable document. Much like ICC in much of Europe, whether required or not. But I can't resist the suspicion that the advice from the Irish Citizen site is at odds with the Irish constitution, hence the Catch 22 allusion from our Irish m'learned friend.

I still think birdseye will be absolutely fine, whatever documents he does or doesn't carry. The only difference will be in the nature of the adventure. I'm sure he'll have his passport with him, regardless. And may the wind always be at his back.

We're off next week to go all the way round Ireland, (clockwise) and we'll take passports and all the rest. Just in case. We sailed from Kiel via Denmark/Sweden/Norway back to the Clyde last year and were never asked for any documents anywhere at all. Except in Lerwick!

 

[Graham376]

Graham (re post #15): of course the approach I'd recommend, to the OP or anyone else, is the prudent one: carry every conceivable document. Much like ICC in much of Europe, whether required or not. But I can't resist the suspicion that the advice from the Irish Citizen site is at odds with the Irish constitution, hence the Catch 22 allusion from our Irish m'learned friend.

I still think birdseye will be absolutely fine, whatever documents he does or doesn't carry. The only difference will be in the nature of the adventure. I'm sure he'll have his passport with him, regardless. And may the wind always be at his back.

As you say, chances are he'll be OK as are 99% of the others who don't get pulled. Problem with officialdom is that interpretation often varies between individuals and I've seen boats impounded elsewhere for things we would see as very trivial. I tend to carry as many documents as may be requested just in case, just like the raft, epirb, danbuoy etc we've never needed - so far.

 

[Georgy Girl]

We are currently in Ireland and have been visited twice by Border Protection in two different locations, both in port, so I would think that you are quite likely to receive one based on our experience. Obviously they didn’t bother with a second check once we had told them that we had already been visited. They took our details and we did show our passports but we volunteered them before being asked for anything and we are also Part 1 registered so again gave them that too, none of which is helpful for you as I can’t say what they would have asked for if we hadn’t pre empted them. I get the impression though that their concerns are for the more illegal activities and if you are above board and with nothing to hide, then they will be satisfied with any documentation you can provide. They were very pleasant and friendly and certainly not looking to make life difficult and said that they wouldn’t worry about searching us. My advice if you are visited would be to be polite and freely offer passports and boat documentation, including your lapsed certificate but not let the worry of a possible visit spoil your trip. The weather here currently is fabulous and set to continue so it will be well worth coming here.