Do you use an anchor snubber?

[RichardS]

My Quick electric windlass has a "lock lever" which I suspect is the pawl, although it's not a spring-loaded pawl but engages with a small handle to lock the gypsy.

However, I've never used it because a) it's low down under the handle and fiddly to get at and b) locking the gypsy is a waste of time because, in the event of any serious pull, the chain will just run out over the gypsy anyway. :ambivalence:

Richard

 

[NormanS]

My Quick electric windlass has a "lock lever" which I suspect is the pawl, although it's not a spring-loaded pawl but engages with a small handle to lock the gypsy.

However, I've never used it because a) it's low down under the handle and fiddly to get at and b) locking the gypsy is a waste of time because, in the event of any serious pull, the chain will just run out over the gypsy anyway. :ambivalence:

Richard

If it's anything like the little lever on my Lofrans Tigres, it is not a pawl, and does not pretend to be a pawl. It is merely to lock the gypsy temporarily, so that the clutch but can be slackened off to drop the chain. Without it, instead of the nut turning, there is a tendency to wind in the gypsy.

 

[sailaboutvic]

My Quick electric windlass has a "lock lever" which I suspect is the pawl, although it's not a spring-loaded pawl but engages with a small handle to lock the gypsy.

However, I've never used it because a) it's low down under the handle and fiddly to get at and b) locking the gypsy is a waste of time because, in the event of any serious pull, the chain will just run out over the gypsy anyway. :ambivalence:

Richard

My lofrans has the same Richard , again we never use it but I do move it back and fro now and then or they will lock up

 

[RichardS]

My lofrans has the same Richard , again we never use it but I do move it back and fro now and then or they will lock up

You're right Vic. The only time I stripped my windlass down to fit new oil seals, the little handle was seized solid. I freed it up and greased it but I've never actually tried it again since then so it might well have seized up again.

Richard

 

[Graham376]

My lofrans has the same Richard , again we never use it but I do move it back and fro now and then or they will lock up

I use mine every time to lock the gypsy when unlocking the lock nut for dropping the hook, never power the anchor down.

 

[NormanS]

I can only assume that you guys never use your clutch to use "free fall". If you did, you would find that when using the winch handle to slacken off the nut, the gypsy would just rotate. That's what that little lock lever is for.
I don't do Med mooring, so have yet to find a situation where gravity doesn't work for me.

 

[geem]

I can only assume that you guys never use your clutch to use "free fall". If you did, you would find that when using the winch handle to slacken off the nut, the gypsy would just rotate. That's what that little lock lever is for.
I don't do Med mooring, so have yet to find a situation where gravity doesn't work for me.

Same here. We always gravity drop. Its especially useful when its blowing some. You can get the anchor where you want it on the seabed in a patch of sand before the wind blows the bow off. You can drop that anchor like its leaving an aeroplane at 10,000ft -)

 

[RichardS]

I can only assume that you guys never use your clutch to use "free fall". If you did, you would find that when using the winch handle to slacken off the nut, the gypsy would just rotate. That's what that little lock lever is for.
I don't do Med mooring, so have yet to find a situation where gravity doesn't work for me.

We usually loosen the clutch and free fall if in water deeper than about 10m to speed things up a bit ..... but have never, ever used the lock lever. We have a special winch handle (I have drilled off the right-angled part with the roller handle) and just put that in the clutch and turn anticlockwise. The force needed to open the clutch is always less than the weight/friction of chain plus anchor ...... plus, windlasses are usually worm drives so they're not going to turn anyway.

Richard

 

[MM5AHO]

I use a 10m nylon rope snubber. I get about 1m of elasticity - that is about 1m of stretch in and out. I place the hook on the chain just above water level, over the bow, and make it off at the stern. It lies along the deck under tension, doesn't scratch anything, doesn't make a noise, but it does elongate.
I have about 1m of slack chain above the hook, and that is made off at the Sampson post, and beyond that post, on the windlass gypsy, but that's not taking the load. It's amazing to see the stretch in the rope in a good gale. It's really obvious how its removing snatch loading off the chain.
The hook is a simple stainless one. It has never come off under load, but easily comes off when the snubber tension is released. I once tried having the nylon rope (it must be nylon) all out into the water. Then the hook comes off occasionally. I also have the part of the snubber rope that goes over the bow through a plastic water hose, and that prevents chafe. The hose is about 1 metre long and rides on the bow back and forth. It has a small securing string to the snubber rope so that it stays in the same relative position. I think that I'm getting about 10% extension on the rope. If I had a 1 or 2m snubber as some do, 10% of that might be 100mm. Given that I do actually get 1000mm stretch, 100mm isn't enough.

 

[NormanS]

We usually loosen the clutch and free fall if in water deeper than about 10m to speed things up a bit ..... but have never, ever used the lock lever. We have a special winch handle (I have drilled off the right-angled part with the roller handle) and just put that in the clutch and turn anticlockwise. The force needed to open the clutch is always less than the weight/friction of chain plus anchor ...... plus, windlasses are usually worm drives so they're not going to turn anyway.

Richard

Your windlass must be different from mine. With mine there is a manual option, so wormdrive or not, it can certainly be rotated by hand.

 

[LadyInBed]

b) locking the gypsy is a waste of time because, in the event of any serious pull, the chain will just run out over the gypsy anyway. :ambivalence:

Richard

That doesn't sound very good, I've got to ask if the gypsy is the correct size for the chain.
I wonder if it's the difference between a horizontal and a vertical windlass. I can never remember which is which, but my gypsy rotates on a horizontal axis.
The other factor is the amount of chain in contact with the gypsy. Mine has about 100 to 110 degrees and doesn't slip, a windlass with a gypsy on a vertical axis would, I think, have more chain in contact so less likely to slip.
Maybe yours is just worn out through too much use

 

[RichardS]

That doesn't sound very good, I've got to ask if the gypsy is the correct size for the chain.
I wonder if it's the difference between a horizontal and a vertical windlass. I can never remember which is which, but my gypsy rotates on a horizontal axis.
The other factor is the amount of chain in contact with the gypsy. Mine has about 100 to 110 degrees and doesn't slip, a windlass with a gypsy on a vertical axis would, I think, have more chain in contact so less likely to slip.
Maybe yours is just worn out through too much use

My gypsy is vertical and is definitely the correct size for the chain.

The chain runs horizontally onto the top of the gypsy and then goes over and falls vertically into the locker. so I guess that's a 90 degree contact area.

Have you ever anchored in above 25 knots (although that would probably be 30 - 35 knots with monohull windage) and let the boat pull back on the chain with no snubber or chain lock? In that situation my chain will just jump out around the gypsy. :ambivalence:

Richard

 

[NormanS]

Mine doesn't. Is your chain locker very shallow?

 

[geem]

My gypsy is vertical and is definitely the correct size for the chain.

The chain runs horizontally onto the top of the gypsy and then goes over and falls vertically into the locker. so I guess that's a 90 degree contact area.

Have you ever anchored in above 25 knots (although that would probably be 30 - 35 knots with monohull windage) and let the boat pull back on the chain with no snubber or chain lock? In that situation my chain will just jump out around the gypsy. :ambivalence:

Richard

We have anchored in very windy conditions and never had an instance of the chain jumping off the gypsy but we have an extra chain roller that the chain passes under just before the gypsy. This ensures the chain has a contact with the gypsy greater than 90degrees.

 

[LadyInBed]

Have you ever anchored in above 25 knots (although that would probably be 30 - 35 knots with monohull windage) and let the boat pull back on the chain with no snubber or chain lock? In that situation my chain will just jump out around the gypsy. :ambivalence:

Richard

Yes, had 30 - 35 knot gusts when anchored off Cascais a couple of years ago, but I've never experienced the chain jumping because I always use my snubber, so there is never any snatching on the gypsy.

 

[Graham376]

Our chain runs slightly downhill from the bow roller to the gypsy and then drops vertically down to a shallow locker so it's a bit under 90 degrees wrap. If we're going astern a bit too fast and I brake the gypsy on payout, the snatch as the anchor digs in can occasionally cause the chain to jump.

 

[RichardS]

Yes, had 30 - 35 knot gusts when anchored off Cascais a couple of years ago, but I've never experienced the chain jumping because I always use my snubber, so there is never any snatching on the gypsy.

Ah, I see .... we also always use a bridle snubber and a chain lock but on a couple of occasions we been distracted for a few seconds whilst anchoring in high winds and big waves and our gypsy will not consistently hold the chain.

Richard

 

[dom]

I made myself a snubber this year, but only to reduce the banging as the boat sails across the wind and back at anchor and the chain jumps from side to side of the bow roller. I have never had any issues at all with the chain snatching in the direction of pull. I think that's because she is heavy for size with a long keel and curved stem, so there is lots of natural damping there. Snatching seems to be a particular feature of modern boats with vertical stems and flat hulls at the bow.

Quick unscientific test this w/e with a boat pretty much the vertical stem, deep keel boat you describe: 50', 25kg Spade. A longish 6.5m hard mud/grit plain provided the test bed: average depth 6.5m.

I attached a 12mm stretchy polyester (mooring line type) line to the anchor as well as the chain. Rope measured exactly 10m inc a bowline attaching it to bow cleat. So effectively I cld switch between an all-chain and all 12mm rope rode. Rode angle at the seabed circa 40deg, so terrible for anchor.

Wind: 15-20kts

1. Tried to anchor using all-chain and it continually slipped. Released a little more chain to allow boat to lie to pre-attached rode (not enough to drag on seabed. The anchor caught and held. Repeated 3x: same result.

2. Switched back to chain from rope rode and on 2 out of 3 occasions the partly set anchor pulled back out.

3. Yawing and peak tensions were visibly less and boat lay with a much more settled demeanor to the rope rode. Wld be fun to stick a chain dynamometer if available.​

A yacht mag might wish to test for different hulls & rodes -- they probably have -- but it seems that both your and Neeves' intuitions are anecdotally correct.

 

[noelex]

Ah, I see .... we also always use a bridle snubber and a chain lock but on a couple of occasions we been distracted for a few seconds whilst anchoring in high winds and big waves and our gypsy will not consistently hold the chain.

Have you ever anchored in above 25 knots (although that would probably be 30 - 35 knots with monohull windage) and let the boat pull back on the chain with no snubber or chain lock? In that situation my chain will just jump out around the gypsy. :ambivalence:

Richard, the gypsy should be holding the chain better than you describe.

Subjecting the windlass to high loads is not good practice so in most cases the type of slipping you are experiencing will not have any practical effect, but in an emergency situation the windlass can be subject to strong forces and it should be capable of achieving this. The other concern is that slipping chain at any time can be dangerous.

I suspect your windlass gypsy is worn or is not the correct fit for your chain. If this is not the case it has been poorly designed as it should be performing better.

 

[Neeves]

Richard,

I'd agree your gypsy should retain the chain.

However it may have nothing to do with the gypsy - but the chain. I don't know how long 20 links of a standard, metric, chain should be - but it might be worth measuring it to see if it meets specification. I would have said chains cannot stretch - but I know I'm wrong as too many people claim to have stretched their chain - and it no longer fitted their gypsy.

Strangely I've heard the odd mention of chains stretching - but not gypsies wearing (but maybe I lead a sheltered life).

You really need to go back in time and describe how your chain and gypsy worked when you first had you cat - was this an issue then or is this something that has developed. If it has developed slowly then maybe its a worn gypsy - it its sudden deterioration maybe the chain has stretched.

When you wrap the chain round the gypsy does it seem to fit? - or is it too long or too short. Maybe buy a short length of the appropriate sized chain, new, and compare how your old chain fits vs a new piece (and you can compare length at the same time).

Or measure 20 links of your chain and go into a chandler and measure 20 links of the same sized chain - is there a difference.

Jonathan