Do you like it in or out over winter?

[Alpha22]

Hi, I am trying to win an argument and I hope the assembled collective can help. To keep it unbiased, I won't tell you which side I am trying to win.

This all applies to an inland freshwater marina. The argument goes something like:-

1. "20 to 30 year old GRP boats should be stored out of the water over the winter if at all possible."

2. "It's OK to leave a GRP boat in the water indefinitely."


Your views and reasons would be appreciated.

Deano

 

[Koeketiene]

Hi, I am trying to win an argument and I hope the assembled collective can help. To keep it unbiased, I won't tell you which side I am trying to win.

This all applies to an inland freshwater marina. The argument goes something like:-

1. "20 to 30 year old GRP boats should be stored out of the water over the winter if at all possible."

2. "It's OK to leave a GRP boat in the water indefinitely."


Your views and reasons would be appreciated.

Deano

Boats are built to be sailed.
Boats sail very badly on the hard.

No brainer really.

 

[dunmall]

Hi, I am trying to win an argument and I hope the assembled collective can help. To keep it unbiased, I won't tell you which side I am trying to win.

This all applies to an inland freshwater marina. The argument goes something like:-

1. "20 to 30 year old GRP boats should be stored out of the water over the winter if at all possible."

2. "It's OK to leave a GRP boat in the water indefinitely."


Your views and reasons would be appreciated.

Deano

Osmosis (dreaded by all GRP boat owners) is a process where water travels from one place to another if nothing impermeable 'prevents it' from doing so. GRP is a good preventer but is not 100% effective, hence GRP hulls increase in moisture content and can often lead to osmosis patches in the hull (not cheap to remedy). The only way of reducing water permeating the hull is to 'remove' the water surrounding the boat, i.e. crane it out.

Then its happy days !!

 

[oldgit]

Osmosis (dreaded by all GRP boat owners) is a process where water travels from one place to another if nothing impermeable 'prevents it' from doing so. GRP is a good preventer but is not 100% effective, hence GRP hulls increase in moisture content and can often lead to osmosis patches in the hull (not cheap to remedy). The only way of reducing water permeating the hull is to 'remove' the water surrounding the boat, i.e. crane it out.

Then its happy days !!

H.mm must get onto the military and RNLI and ask if they store stuff ashore for six months each year.Vital to know when Albion is not being defended or even worse likely to be left to drown if rescue boat is drying out ashore .

 

[DukeII]

Dunno what you want to hear, but we're aiming to have our old bus (1973 GRP Hull)out every other year (as it already has some osmosis) but if money and time were not an object I think we would crane it out every year.

That doesn't mean it's right tho'

 

[sighmoon]

H.mm must get onto the military and RNLI and ask if they store stuff ashore for six months each year.Vital to know when Albion is not being defended or even worse likely to be left to drown if rescue boat is drying out ashore .

Are warships fibreglass?

 

[oldgit]

"Are warships fibreglass"

Some of the smaller ones.A lot of coastguard/fisheries stuff,minesweepers and large bits of submarines and not a single inch of shiney white gelcoat anywhere.
Pretty sure lifeboats are fabricated with both epoxy and aluminium hulls
Think this one is ?

 

[boatone]

Boats are designed to be supported by water so, if chocking up ashore, its essential to ensure that the supports are well placed and up to the job. Winter doesn't only bring cold but strong winds as well and a boat fallen off its chocks is a sorry sight!

A boat ashore is also much more prone to frost damage. As the whole boat is up in the air cold will permeate every nook and cranny and lazy winterising which leaves water in pipes, engine raw cooling areas etc will catch you out in sub zero cold spells such as we have already experienced this year.

A boat afloat is in the environment it was designed for. Not only is it well supported and better protected from windage problems but the bottom of the boat is usually at least a couple of feet below the surface where the water temperature will be several degrees warmer than at the surface. This means that the whole of the bottom area acts as a mild radiator and, provided engine bay and other floor hatches are well insulated, will keep the vital areas rather warmer than the air temperature. A Maximum/Minimum thermometer in the engine bay will give you a good idea of what's going on down there compared to surface temperatures. For several years now I have not used any form of engine bay heating and the temperature in the engine compartment never dropped below zero - steel boat which is good conductor but fibreglass not likely to be much different. Also, no engine bay heating means no moist warm air generated to rise into the cabin and become condensation on cold surfaces.

I must confess that I have just gone to some lengths to install a single tube heater in the new boat but this is partly because I dont yet know how it will behave winterwise so this winter will be a learning curve.

As for osmosis..... never heard of a boat sinking from it or even worried too much about a few blisters on previous boats. True, its not very pretty but you cant actually see it so thats not really a problem. Biggest problem is surveyors quoting moisture content figures in a sale survey and drawing attention to every little blemish as if its the beginning of the end!

On balance ? Definitely in the water all year round as far as I'm concerned but a few months ashore autumn/spring every two or three years to let the fibreglass shed some of the moisture seems to be a conventional wisdom. Need to come out anyway at least every couple of years for underwater maintenance be it outdrives, props, shafts, anodes etc etc

Final thought ..... boat looks happier afloat , too !!

 

[apollo]

Tone, totally agree with all that you say and thats pretty much what I do...

Only other point here in Harleyford is there is no Mains power on hardstanding to run heaters - and there is at mooring - hence a no brainer!!

 

[ms1]

If the reason for taking a GRP boat out of the water over winter is said to be to allow moisture in the GRP to escape, surely when that moisture freezes during the winter even worse osmosis damage is likely to result ?

 

[Fantasie 19]

If the reason for taking a GRP boat out of the water over winter is said to be to allow moisture in the GRP to escape, surely when that moisture freezes during the winter even worse osmosis damage is likely to result ?

...a good question and here's something else I was wondering about - if you're boat is kept mainly in saltwater - is the moisture in the hull saline too?

 

[dunmall]

A lot of good, realistic and valid opinions. However, the science is that water will flow from high (the river) to low concentration (the hull) and trying to sell a boat without a surveyor's report is difficult. My 1st boat back in the late 80s was £11,500. After the report I offered £6700 due to the quotes for treating areas of osmosis. The seller was really annoyed, but after some months of still having the boat accepted my offer.

I guess its all down to where your confidence lies.

 

[Chris_d]

Its the gelcoat that is the problem, fibreglass Warships don't have a gelcoat so they don't worry about osmosis they seal the hull with epoxy paint or summit.

A grp hull with a gelcoat will start absorbing water from the moment it is put in the water, freshwater is worse than seawater and absorbed faster hence why boats used inland suffer more from osmosis. Taking the boat out of the water slows the absorbtion process but it doesn't reverse it or reduce the amount of water in the hull, the only way to do that is strip the gelcoat off and heat the hull to dry it out.
So anybody who takes their boat out to "dry it out" is kidding themselves, all you've done is stop it absorbing some water for a few months. So it is sort of worthwhile but given the risks of not winterising properly on balence I'd say its a waste of time.

Mine stays in

 

[apollo]

Chris - Whereas I have always agreed with that point of view myself......

When I last had the boat out 5 years ago, I had some large blisters on the transom. The boat was out for 6 months in Val Wyatts and in that time it did dry out to the point the blisters had disappeared when it went back in again.

Strangest thing, is I had the boat out last month for a month, and the blisters had not reappeared after 5 years on the Thames....

I dont know why?

...but to be honest, who cares!!

 

[Chris_d]

Chris - Whereas I have always agreed with that point of view myself......

When I last had the boat out 5 years ago, I had some large blisters on the transom. The boat was out for 6 months in Val Wyatts and in that time it did dry out to the point the blisters had disappeared when it went back in again.

Strangest thing, is I had the boat out last month for a month, and the blisters had not reappeared after 5 years on the Thames....

I dont know why?

...but to be honest, who cares!!

Thats an odd one disappearing blisters, but as you say lifes too short to get too worried about it.

 

[dunmall]

On a final note, the RNLI at Poole lift and check the hulls of their boats 'at least' twice a year, obviously with no problems they go straight back in, with excessive moisture or problems relative to that they have very expensive storage enclosures fited with, e.g. infra red lighting, to dry hulls quickly and return to the water ASAP.

Meanwhile, I'm still wringing the water out of my hull

 

[Dave_Seager]

... the science is that water will flow from high (the river) to low concentration (the hull) ...

I think that osmosis works the other way round.

The problem with boats arises when there a pockets of concentrated, soluble chemicals in the lay-up. If the gel coat is semi-permeable then water migrates from outside the hull to dilute these chemicals. The effect is less in salt water than in fresh because the salt water already contains dissolved salts (salt).

 

[apollo]

I think that osmosis works the other way round.

The problem with boats arises when there a pockets of concentrated, soluble chemicals in the lay-up. If the gel coat is semi-permeable then water migrates from outside the hull to dilute these chemicals. The effect is less in salt water than in fresh because the salt water already contains dissolved salts (salt).

Excellent......Google or Bing?

 

[CX54WEK]

Its a no brainer for us. We bought a boat to be on the water so NC stays in years round. We would miss out on the fantastic winter cruising if she were chocked ashore all winter.

She comes out once a year early on in the season for a week or so to get a quick spruce up and polish/wax, change anodes, service the drive and fresh antifoul then is back in the water/ice for another 12 months.

Being in the water offers a boat some extra protection from the winter cold and frost as we discovered last weekend. Our engine bay tube heater had not been on the previous week due to a faulty thermostatic switch. Luckily the raw water system including the heat exchanger, oil cooler, after cooler and intercooler had not suffered any damage. The domestic water pump however wasnt so lucky and has sprung a quite impressive leak

 

[No Regrets]

No Regrets is in for this, and next Winter, assuming she's still afloat.

All cocks closed, Domestic system drained, and 3X 250W greenhouse heaters in the engine room, so no problems.

Batteries now OFF charge, they'll go on for a week in the new year to top them up.

Osmosis is inevitable, so I'm not interested in that in any shape or form, when she's going to be sold, she'll be out for a few months to dry the hull and remove any obvious blisters in anticipation of a survey.

It's a Boat, not a shiny toy