Do you know how to tie a cleat hitch?

[TamarMike]

I would have thought with the design of cleat in the photo 2 is the only one which could be easily eased or tightened under load without risk of the rope slipping off. I assume the ships referred to as using 1 would generally have mooring ropes leading down from the cleats unless they had larger flat plates on top or were pairs of vertical posts.

 

[Richard10002]

RYA teach 2, followed by OXO, and no locking hitch. Less chance of jamming.

 

[jfm]

I think the RN work on the basis that the cleat is properly secured to the deck and the primary issue is ensuring the best method of securing the line to ensure it doesn't slip

Indeed so. But on a mass-produced GRP boat the strength of the "bond" twixt cleat and boat is most definitely an issue. One thinks of the bolts holding the cleat as being loaded in shear, but that isn't correct: the loading should be in tension only, and the friction between the cleat and the boat should take the shear load (helped by a dollop of sikaflex glue). Problem with many mass produced GRP boats is you ought to be a bit suspicious that the cleat bolts cant be tightened bolts enough to give you as much friction as you'd like, because the GRP can't withstand the compressive load! So you have to be a bit more careful than with an RN ship

Not that Mapis's boat is mass-produced GRP, btw

On the o/x thing, I didn't know RYA teach OXO. I think OXO is a bit poor. The second O does nothing much useful becuase the line isn't taught within that O, hence the frictional forces are tiny. I always do OXX, with locking hitch on the second X to keep that X taught within itself, then all three letters OXX contribute to the job

 

[Observer]

AIUI, the direction and choice of cleat end for the initial turn is dictated by the need to avoid/minimise risk of pinching with later turns. With the design of cleat pictured, 1, 2 and 3 appear to be equal - I can't see there'd be risk of pinching with any of them. However, 1 has substantially more rope in contact with the cleat on the first turn (so will give more friction) followed by 2 and then 3, so that would by my choice and order of preference, simply from pov of efficiency.

For the same reason, I think 2 (possibly) and 3 (definitely) might need an extra turn somewhere to give the same holding power because there's not so much friction on the first turn.

WRT jfm's comment:

On the o/x thing, I didn't know RYA teach OXO. I think OXO is a bit poor. The second O does nothing much useful becuase the line isn't taught within that O, hence the frictional forces are tiny. I always do OXX, with locking hitch on the second X to keep that X taught within itself, then all three letters OXX contribute to the job

I agree that the final O should be 'working' but whether it does or not, with or without a locking turn or half-hitch, depends upon the combination of size/type of cleat and the size/material of rope. On Fair Prospect's deck cleats (10" bar cleat) and with the mooring lines we use, the simple OXO works really well, because a tug on the rope on the second O makes it grip the previous turns. On a typical pontoon cleat, I may do OXX (with locking turn) or OXXO depending on how well (or not) the earlier turns go on, or even OXOOO if tidying up the end of the rope. Horses for courses. The technique I never use is multiple XXXs, with locking turn on each - pointless, unsightly and inconvenient.

 

[MapisM]

Not that Mapis's boat is mass-produced GRP, btw

Yup, perfect she ain't of course, but neither GRP nor mass produced for sure!
And you know what, in spite of the massive construction, the builder normally doesn't use steel cleats if at all possible, 'cause he says that he doesn't trust them...
Astern, the boat came out of the yard with just the wooden cleats in the pic below: the steel ones were added afterward, just to allow quicker maneuvering. And just to put things in perspective, the line is 24mm.

 

[benjenbav]

I would use 2 because I like to have a turn round both posts before any criss-crossing of lines is introduced and 3 always looks wrong to me, maybe only because I'm not used to doing it that way.

However, given that I would guess that most of us mostly use the same warps to moor in the same place I would think that there is a benefit in alternating between 2 and 3 to avoid the warps wearing unnecessarily quickly by the same part of the warp chafing on the cleat all the time.

 

[AndieMac]

The technique I never use is multiple XXXs, with locking turn on each - pointless, unsightly and inconvenient.

This tying off method is the one of choice for commercial mariners in this part of the world.

 

[Observer]

This tying off method is the one of choice for commercial mariners in this part of the world.

Beats me why. Is there a reason for doing it that way I'm not seeing?

 

[BartW]

Yup, perfect she ain't of course, but neither GRP nor mass produced for sure!
And you know what, in spite of the massive construction, the builder normally doesn't use steel cleats if at all possible, 'cause he says that he doesn't trust them...
Astern, the boat came out of the yard with just the wooden cleats in the pic below: the steel ones were added afterward, just to allow quicker maneuvering. And just to put things in perspective, the line is 24mm.

am I right that on this picture you have only used XX with a locking hitch on each X ?
(just to check my understanding of this thread )

 

[MapisM]

(just to check my understanding of this thread )

Yep, I see what you mean.
In fact, I started the thread saying that we all know how to tie a cleat hitch, assuming that just the way to start it was debatable, but I realised that there are different views on the whole topic.
Anyway, you're right, but I strictly use it on those big wooden cleats.
Tried and tested to work fine also under _big_ loads.
Actually, the second X is even redundant, it never seems to really work.
But on normal cleats, I use what I assumed to be the "standard" cleat hitch - see below.

 

[AndieMac]

Beats me why. Is there a reason for doing it that way I'm not seeing?

As an example..... at work when a larger boat needs moving to another berth (single handed operation), across tide, after the appropiate length line is attached bow and stern, berthing lines are released (when tide is flowing in the right direction) and the line is fed through the 12" (300mm) bar cleats from the marina pontoon (standard Bellingham structure).
At this point the line is laying across the cleat in an S shape, or half the figure 8 with a fair bit of pressure on the line. To stop the boat movement or continue it, just add more or less line to the figure 8, a metre or two from bow, tie off, and a metre or two from stern, until parallel in the next berth over.

The method of taking a full turn around the base of the bar cleat (IMO), will not allow an easy out-flow of the line, and creates a tendency to jam in these situations.

If the figure 8 is at the bottom of the tie off arrangement, I can confidently attempt to tackle a line easing situation with a big boat on a gusty wind/strong tidal day. Having to completely release a jammed line, could mean the vessel would get away from me, with disasterous results.

 

[timbartlett]

How can you

confidently attempt to tackle a line easing situation with a big boat on a gusty wind/strong tidal day.

with

multiple XXXs, with locking turn on each

??
Multiple figure of eights I go for ... it's the multiple locking turns that I don't understand, because they have this nasty habit of living up to their name!

 

[AndieMac]

How can you

with

??
Multiple figure of eights I go for ... it's the multiple locking turns that I don't understand, because they have this nasty habit of living up to their name!

I guess its just what you get used to doing....... I pick up the tail just near the lock off turn and roll the line tight, following the lay (3 strand), or even braided for that matter. With the line rigid, after a hard twist, push back into the lock off turn, and it loosens.
The load (ship side) is taken up on the first full figure 8, if its firmly applied to the cleat, so the pressure on the lock off turn should not be that tight, so that the twist and push method will not release it.

 

[dombuckley]

Quite apart from jamming, security of deck fastenings, et al, the reason why method 2 is almost universally used by professional (i.e. big ship) mariners, is for safety of personnel.

Imagine there is a lot of weight on the rope / wire, and it needs to be eased. In both methods 1 and 3, surging the rope round the cleat can only be done by somebody standing in or close to the line of tension. This means that if the rope parts, they will be in danger of being struck by the recoiling rope or wire: on a big ship with ropes and wires under high stresses, the results can be fatal.

Using method 2, the person working the rope can stand well back from the cleat, well out of the line of recoil, and still be in full control.